A City with Robots & Artificers.

[Wes]

Interesting,, I guess that means the city will be in ruins near the end of the game instead? Unless the trailer of BG getting attacked by mind-flayers was only for marketing, & had nothing to do with the actual story.

Well I'm just happy they didn't go the route where everything was destroyed when we got there! It would have saved them money to just show rubble & debris,, but nope they're going all out. 🌃 🌠

Also nobody in this forum is talking about the robots in the newest trailers?? This had me hyped the most,, & could careless about "Gortash" lol. Unless he's a secret artificer, which brings me to my next thoughts...

There's no excuse not to add an artificer class now,, especially since it was confirmed that artificers exist in BG3? They're obviously going to play a role in creating the robots,, & If I'm wrong then give us an 'artificer tag' to unlock some related content.

And I really want one of those machines on the team,, which would make a good alternative for a Warforged.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Messaggio originale di Yojo0o:

Either the skillset is a big deal, or it isn't. If artificers are playable, then meeting one is inherently less of a big deal.

While I generally agree, I'm not certain that them being playable would be less of a big deal being that player characters by nature have to represent like 1% of the population due to their almost superhuman like abilities in comparison to the rest of the world.

I think there is often this easily understandable but widely incorrect perception that player characters are common. There's been more than a few pieces written on this subject.

Players have to be viewed as an outlier, something that has the potential to disrupt the normal flow of the world which is why DMs are necessary.

[Lord Adorable]

Messaggio originale di Dremall:

Monks, Dragonborn and Half Orcs first, anything more than that is icing on the cake.

Yup. Races like Deep Gnomes & Githyanki for instance. Apperantly Duergar have been datamined as well, so that's at least-if the datamined Under-Dwarves are playable- 3 races from MoTM.

[Yojo0o]

Messaggio originale di Vixzian:

Messaggio originale di Yojo0o:

Either the skillset is a big deal, or it isn't. If artificers are playable, then meeting one is inherently less of a big deal.

While I generally agree, I'm not certain that them being playable would be less of a big deal being that player characters by nature have to represent like 1% of the population due to their almost superhuman like abilities in comparison to the rest of the world.

I think there is often this easily understandable but widely incorrect perception that player characters are common. There's been more than a few pieces written on this subject.

Players have to be viewed as an outlier, something that has the potential to disrupt the normal flow of the world which is why DMs are necessary.

I'm all for players being an outlier unique character. But there's a difference between being unique like a wizard or paladin, both of which have significant representation within a city like Baldur's Gate, and unique like an artificer, which is virtually nonexistent in the Forgotten Realms setting.

In my perspective, once you've made artificers playable, you can't un-ring that bell. That means your fantasy setting is moving in the direction of scientific progress and industry. Gortash already seems to represent a significant shift in what we'd expect from the streets of Baldur's Gate in the current year.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Messaggio originale di Yojo0o:

Messaggio originale di Vixzian:

While I generally agree, I'm not certain that them being playable would be less of a big deal being that player characters by nature have to represent like 1% of the population due to their almost superhuman like abilities in comparison to the rest of the world.

I think there is often this easily understandable but widely incorrect perception that player characters are common. There's been more than a few pieces written on this subject.

Players have to be viewed as an outlier, something that has the potential to disrupt the normal flow of the world which is why DMs are necessary.

I'm all for players being an outlier unique character. But there's a difference between being unique like a wizard or paladin, both of which have significant representation within a city like Baldur's Gate, and unique like an artificer, which is virtually nonexistent in the Forgotten Realms setting.

In my perspective, once you've made artificers playable, you can't un-ring that bell. That means your fantasy setting is moving in the direction of scientific progress and industry. Gortash already seems to represent a significant shift in what we'd expect from the streets of Baldur's Gate in the current year.

I mean this is where it gets interesting. On the one hand there is an expectation of societal forward thinking but on the other not so much? If you understand the impact of one then you should be able to just as easily understand the impact of the other when it comes to dabbling into the real life ideas, tech, etc. into the fantasy world.

I agree with you it does open the genie bottle. But again where is the line to be drawn?

I also think it would be highly unrealistic for a thing to exist that hasn't been thought of elsewhere already. It's almost an impossibility for one person to be privy to a new discovery and the more people to witness such a thing means the more than have the opportunity to replicate it or leak it to those who can. I think the only way to make it truly unique is if somehow said person came from a different time, world, dimension, etc. But even then the bell was already rung once they became a reality. Gortash existing let's the genie out of the bottle.

[Nightmarian]

Messaggio originale di Yojo0o:

Messaggio originale di Nightmarian:

By the same token, sharing a profession and/or passion with the villain is equally, if not more, narratively compelling too. I'd argue doubly so if your profession is rare, because in you he would also find a rare equal or rival.

I'd disagree with that. If Gortash is super duper special to be the one artificer in Baldur's Gate, what's it mean if a party of them are just vibing a few miles down the coast and are set to arrive? Would Ulder Ravengard and the rest of the leadership of BG have an entirely different plan for city defense and law enforcement if they'd simply waited a few days for all the other available artificers to show up?

Either the skillset is a big deal, or it isn't. If artificers are playable, then meeting one is inherently less of a big deal.

You obviously don't read a lot, let alone know all that much about the setting. Our boy is already unique in a lot of ways, all far more meaningful, such as having being raised by an archdevil.

Some of the best moments in storytelling have come from narrative mirrors. Luke vs Vader is one of the most famous, the old highly trained master vs the young, uncertain seed of potential.

"Either the skillset is a big deal, or it isn't," is reductive and simple-brained to the extreme, ignores all nuance and context of good writing, and makes zero sense from a logical standpoint. I have no idea where you're pulling this from other than your rear. Once again, it's obvious you don't read much or know much about the setting.

Something being rare, or even regionally or situationally rare, CAN be narratively meaningful. The jedi after the Order fell is again an example of that, but I can sit here and just list dozens from books, games, and movies.

You're obviously free to your opinion, but it's a weird one I doubt all that many people would agree with if you think that somehow letting a PC--the most special of special snowflakes in games especially most of the time--being one among a very small number somehow destroys its importance.

That literally makes no logical sense and once again there's a long history of narrative masterpieces laughing at you right now.

[larhtas]

Messaggio originale di Nightmarian:

Messaggio originale di Yojo0o:

I'd disagree with that. If Gortash is super duper special to be the one artificer in Baldur's Gate, what's it mean if a party of them are just vibing a few miles down the coast and are set to arrive? Would Ulder Ravengard and the rest of the leadership of BG have an entirely different plan for city defense and law enforcement if they'd simply waited a few days for all the other available artificers to show up?

Either the skillset is a big deal, or it isn't. If artificers are playable, then meeting one is inherently less of a big deal.

You obviously don't read a lot, let alone know all that much about the setting. Our boy is already unique in a lot of ways, all far more meaningful, such as having being raised by an archdevil.

Some of the best narrative and cinematic moments in media history come from purer reflections of good and evil. Luke vs Vader is one of the most famous, the old highly trained master vs the young, uncertain seed of potential.

"Either the skillset is a big deal, or it isn't," is reductive and makes zero sense and I have no idea where you're pulling this from other than your rear. Once again, it's obvious you don't read much or know much about the setting.

Something being rare, or even regionally or situationally rare, CAN be narratively meaningful. The jedi after the Order fell is again an example of that, but I can sit here and just list dozens from books, games, and movies.

You're obviously free to your opinion, but it's a weird one I doubt all that many people would agree with if you think that somehow letting a PC--the most special of special snowflakes in games especially most of the time--being one among a very small number somehow destroys its importance.

That literally makes no logical sense and once again there's a long history of narrative masterpieces laughing at you right now.

I don't understand the personal attacks here? Was it so necessary to make your point?

[Yojo0o]

Messaggio originale di Nightmarian:

Messaggio originale di Yojo0o:

I'd disagree with that. If Gortash is super duper special to be the one artificer in Baldur's Gate, what's it mean if a party of them are just vibing a few miles down the coast and are set to arrive? Would Ulder Ravengard and the rest of the leadership of BG have an entirely different plan for city defense and law enforcement if they'd simply waited a few days for all the other available artificers to show up?

Either the skillset is a big deal, or it isn't. If artificers are playable, then meeting one is inherently less of a big deal.

You obviously don't read a lot, let alone know all that much about the setting. Our boy is already unique in a lot of ways, all far more meaningful, such as having being raised by an archdevil.

Some of the best moments in storytelling have come from narrative mirrors. Luke vs Vader is one of the most famous, the old highly trained master vs the young, uncertain seed of potential.

"Either the skillset is a big deal, or it isn't," is reductive and simple-brained to the extreme, ignores all nuance and context of good writing, and makes zero sense from a logical standpoint. I have no idea where you're pulling this from other than your rear. Once again, it's obvious you don't read much or know much about the setting.

Something being rare, or even regionally or situationally rare, CAN be narratively meaningful. The jedi after the Order fell is again an example of that, but I can sit here and just list dozens from books, games, and movies.

You're obviously free to your opinion, but it's a weird one I doubt all that many people would agree with if you think that somehow letting a PC--the most special of special snowflakes in games especially most of the time--being one among a very small number somehow destroys its importance.

That literally makes no logical sense and once again there's a long history of narrative masterpieces laughing at you right now.

Holy crap dude, just have a reasonable discussion about something.

[gyor]

Messaggio originale di Yojo0o:

Messaggio originale di Vixzian:

While I generally agree, I'm not certain that them being playable would be less of a big deal being that player characters by nature have to represent like 1% of the population due to their almost superhuman like abilities in comparison to the rest of the world.

I think there is often this easily understandable but widely incorrect perception that player characters are common. There's been more than a few pieces written on this subject.

Players have to be viewed as an outlier, something that has the potential to disrupt the normal flow of the world which is why DMs are necessary.

I'm all for players being an outlier unique character. But there's a difference between being unique like a wizard or paladin, both of which have significant representation within a city like Baldur's Gate, and unique like an artificer, which is virtually nonexistent in the Forgotten Realms setting.

In my perspective, once you've made artificers playable, you can't un-ring that bell. That means your fantasy setting is moving in the direction of scientific progress and industry. Gortash already seems to represent a significant shift in what we'd expect from the streets of Baldur's Gate in the current year.

Hate break it to you, but Artificers (and simular earlier attempts at Artificer like things such as Clockwork mages from 2e and Gondsmen from 3e) are NOT that rare in the Forgotten Realms.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Artificer

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Clockwork_mage

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gondsman

Imaskari & Lantan had Artificers, other groups likely did too, some more then others. Mulhorand even had Steam engines, but they let the technology go.

Also Baldur's Gate is a major center for the Worship of Gond with heavy research.

Also not all those kidnapped by the mindflayers were from Faerun, Warforged tag with race and really race and planar tag was datamined early on before being hidden by Larian Studios, the idea being the ship kidnapped Warforged from Eberron as well, before crashing on Toril.

Also the Swordcoast already has Nimblewrights https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nimblewright

[seandeven]

Messaggio originale di gyor:

Also Baldur's Gate is a major center for the Worship of Gond with heavy research.

Which means gnomes are getting in on the artificer narrative...... Can't wait

[gyor]

Messaggio originale di seandeven:

Messaggio originale di gyor:

Also Baldur's Gate is a major center for the Worship of Gond with heavy research.

Which means gnomes are getting in on the artificer narrative...... Can't wait

Any playable race in the game will be able to play an Artificer of I'm right.

Much less likely, but still possible are Autognomes from last years Spelljammer release.

[WeenerTuck813]

I’d be surprised if there were artificers or war forged in the game.

Much more likely that any robots in the game are akin to that automiton guy in the arcane tower, not warforged.

Also much more likely that builders and maintainers of such machines are just people who are engineers in the game, not a designated Artificer class added in as an NPC.

Just my opinion no real evidence though. We’ll see when the game drops

[Wes]

Messaggio originale di Nightmarian:

You need to really calm your jets, lmao. You post like a kid high on sugar, lol.

I don't post like that,, and my jets are calm! 🛬 👨🏻‍✈️

Messaggio originale di Nightmarian:

For all we know, Gortash and even others COULD be artificers, they COULD be in the game, but they STILL might not be PLAYABLE until some xpac down the line or something that also adds other classes and content.

You need to really calm your jets, nightmarian. (Your post towards me & Yojo0o are like a curmudgeon who needs his meds.)

Messaggio originale di Nightmarian:

Just having them in-game means nothing.

^ Well it's one small step for Artificer fans,, & one giant leap for the Baldur's Gate series! And even if that's not true to most people on this forum,, it would definitely still mean something to me.

Messaggio originale di Nightmarian:

they're setting up a "fate of the city" situation for Baldur's Gate. We already know you can potentially destroy the control center for the Steel Watchers.

I'm unaware of this control center,, which I'm guessing holds the souls for all of the automatons?

Messaggio originale di Rusted Metal:

I'd love to see the city be invaded while we are there or some kenabres from wotr type cataclysm happening to the city of BG with everyone fighting for their lives, tons of skirmishes etc.

Larian should add an epic battle between machines & mindflayers. 🐙⚔️🤖

Messaggio originale di Yojo0o:

If Gortash is an "Artificer" in the DnD class sense, that instantly makes him I think the highest-profile artificer in the Forgotten Realms setting. That's a big deal in the narrative.

^ For the love of Gond,, I HOPE SO!

Messaggio originale di larhtas:

I'm with you on this. While I'm not so much a fan of artificer, I'm a huge fan of warforged (or whatever mechanized companion i can get).

How about mechanical versions of 'familiars?' https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Find_Familiar

[Ghost]

Feel it needs to be pointed out again that Forgotten Realms and Eberron are different settings. You might get similarities and stuff from different worlds or planes in either, but these are different universes - DC vs Marvel, Star Wars vs Star Trek etc.

You might get Artificers as a class - PHB is confirmed, but it's not limited to PHB.
You won't get Warforged - they're not part of the Forgotten Realms. However, you might get to play around with an automaton or golem companion (e.g. Construct from NWN2)

[Wes]

Messaggio originale di larhtas:

I don't understand the personal attacks here? Was it so necessary to make your point?

Maybe he's angry at something or someone,, and is putting it out on Yojo0o?

Messaggio originale di gyor:

Warforged tag was datamined early on before being hidden by Larian Studios, the idea being the ship kidnapped Warforged from Eberron as well, before crashing on Toril.

Messaggio originale di Ghost:

You won't get Warforged - they're not part of the Forgotten Realms. However, you might get to play around with an automaton or golem companion

^ I'm predicting the automatons in Faerun,, WILL become our alternate version of Warforged!

They're only in the beginning stages, where our MC will have to decide how their race will flourish or wither. 🥀 👩‍🌾 🌹

Maybe those warforged tags belong to the prototype version of them? Rather then bringing the ones from another setting..

Messaggio originale di WeenerTuck813:

I’d be surprised if there were artificers or war forged in the game. Also much more likely that builders and maintainers of such machines are just people who are engineers in the game, not a designated Artificer class added in as an NPC.

Well they're labeled as "artificers",, who do have an official organization within Baldur's Gate.

Larian might give them a unique ability, or maybe it's a "tag" that we can unlock after learning from them.

What if it allows us to use their own workshop,, so we can make our own custom automaton.

Messaggio originale di Vixzian:

I think the only way to make it truly unique is if somehow said person came from a different time, world, dimension, etc.

Messaggio originale di Vixzian:

Gortash existing let's the genie out of the bottle.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4hpgDMxkQ8

[WeenerTuck813]

Originally posted by WeenerTuck813:
I’d be surprised if there were artificers or war forged in the game. Also much more likely that builders and maintainers of such machines are just people who are engineers in the game, not a designated Artificer class added in as an NPC.

Well they're labeled as "artificers",, who do have an official organization within Baldur's Gate.

Larian might give them a unique ability, or maybe it's a "tag" that we can unlock after learning from them.

What if it allows us to use their own workshop,, so we can make our own custom automaton.
===================

Or maybe Superman joins your party and if you solve his riddle you obtain the one ring from Mordor.