So there are no race restricted classes?

[Oh My God! It's Jason Bourne!]

Gith can be cleric, druid, paladin and so on, any race can take any class? How is this make sense? Lolth sworn Drow can be paladin? What?

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by Dusk_Army:

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

I don't think classes have been restricted by race since .. second edition? 23 years, give or take?

3.5 had some prestige classes that were, so it's been more like 15 years. Still, it was dropped because, go figure, class restrictions are just... not fun.

But also, to the questions in the OP: what would logically stop a Githyanki from being any of those classes? And Evil/non-Good Paladins have also been a possibility in other editions (Anti-Paladin, Paladin of Slaughter, etc.), so a Paladin of Loth is also possible.

Ah, forgot about prestige classes. Good catch.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

Originally posted by Vixzian:

Reminder that the recent bans were due to going off topic. I know this from experience.

On topic however, it's like people forgot how to use critical thinking skills. No one cares about what the player can do, it's about why they would do it other than 'just cuz'. People do this weird thing where they dance around the answer as if to fix a stain on a window with a hammer.

So to clarify. The OP doesn't care about characters 'vibing' or what the player can do within the rules of the game. What the OP cares about is why, as a Gith in their example, it would make sense for said Gith to be able to have the profession of Druid. I know it's tough but I believe some of you can be imaginative within the boundaries of the culture.

Let me try.

*cough* I'll start off with some basic facts about Githyanki culture so everyone is on the same page and use that as a framework to create a backstory for a Githyanki druid.

As the Githyanki are effectively space/planar vikings in this setting, and they live in the etheral plane (which GREATLY expands their lifespan as they don't age while in it) that when it comes to having kids and laying eggs they actively HAVE to leave the Ethereal Plane and form a creche, which act as nurseries, schools, supply depots, libraries, training grounds and more.

Newly hatched Gith are raised in a creche until they come of an age where they are able to fight and have been educated on the types of enemies they will be fighting, especially the mind flayers whom the Githyanki see as mortal enemies, they are then sent on what is effectively a pilgrimage. Githyanki are not considered adults until they bring back the head of a mind flayer.

Because they are effectively enemies of everyone, planeshifting to raid others while also constantly hunting mind flayers it wouldn't be a surprise that when a creche is discovered that they are attacked and probably destroyed by those capable of doing it.

With these facts, let us begin.

Vaelis was a young githyanki who was born and raised in Creche Tilar hidden deep in a jungle. She was always curious about what lay outside of the creche and tried sneaking both out and into the library to learn more. Every time she got outside she would see a different animal and grew fascinated. Her handlers used force to bring her in line.

They received a visitor from the Ethereal Plane from an older gith who came to show off the head of a mind flayer and during the celebration of adulthood Vaelis snuck out again and no one noticed she was gone for several hours as a result, during which time she got lost in the forest.

A kind halfling druid heard her crying and came to investigate the sound and saw a githyanki girl by a tree alone and afraid. He offered her food and a place to stay, being the first person alive who showed the girl genuine kindness. She was fascinated by his power over nature, his willingness to answer any question asked and became more and more fascinated.

He was part of a nearby Circle of Druids and told her that if she had nowhere to go that she could go there and they would take her in. During this time a friend of his from an old adventuring party showed up, and while friendly to the girl knew that if there was a child githyanki that a creche was likely nearby and he returned home to prepare.

At this time the githyanki showed up as they had been looking for her and killed the druid and forced her back to the creche, breaking Vaelis' heart.

A few weeks later she woke up to the sound of fighting and saw a large force from a city attacking the creche. Running away during the fighting she went straight back to where she met the halfling druid and started trying to find the Circle he told her about. They found her first and when she name-dropped the druid they brought her back for questioning.

She was ultimately accepted and they started raising her in the Circle, eventually she took on their ways and became a druid herself.

Very well done. If I was the OP I would very much find this scenario helpful even if it could be countered. At the end of the day it lends one to think of possibilities.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

Originally posted by Dusk_Army:

3.5 had some prestige classes that were, so it's been more like 15 years. Still, it was dropped because, go figure, class restrictions are just... not fun.

But also, to the questions in the OP: what would logically stop a Githyanki from being any of those classes? And Evil/non-Good Paladins have also been a possibility in other editions (Anti-Paladin, Paladin of Slaughter, etc.), so a Paladin of Loth is also possible.

Ah, forgot about prestige classes. Good catch.

Man prestige classes were such oddball things back then.

They were usually either comically broken or hysterically impractical from what I hear.

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Vixzian:

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

Let me try.

*cough* I'll start off with some basic facts about Githyanki culture so everyone is on the same page and use that as a framework to create a backstory for a Githyanki druid.

As the Githyanki are effectively space/planar vikings in this setting, and they live in the etheral plane (which GREATLY expands their lifespan as they don't age while in it) that when it comes to having kids and laying eggs they actively HAVE to leave the Ethereal Plane and form a creche, which act as nurseries, schools, supply depots, libraries, training grounds and more.

Newly hatched Gith are raised in a creche until they come of an age where they are able to fight and have been educated on the types of enemies they will be fighting, especially the mind flayers whom the Githyanki see as mortal enemies, they are then sent on what is effectively a pilgrimage. Githyanki are not considered adults until they bring back the head of a mind flayer.

Because they are effectively enemies of everyone, planeshifting to raid others while also constantly hunting mind flayers it wouldn't be a surprise that when a creche is discovered that they are attacked and probably destroyed by those capable of doing it.

With these facts, let us begin.

Vaelis was a young githyanki who was born and raised in Creche Tilar hidden deep in a jungle. She was always curious about what lay outside of the creche and tried sneaking both out and into the library to learn more. Every time she got outside she would see a different animal and grew fascinated. Her handlers used force to bring her in line.

They received a visitor from the Ethereal Plane from an older gith who came to show off the head of a mind flayer and during the celebration of adulthood Vaelis snuck out again and no one noticed she was gone for several hours as a result, during which time she got lost in the forest.

A kind halfling druid heard her crying and came to investigate the sound and saw a githyanki girl by a tree alone and afraid. He offered her food and a place to stay, being the first person alive who showed the girl genuine kindness. She was fascinated by his power over nature, his willingness to answer any question asked and became more and more fascinated.

He was part of a nearby Circle of Druids and told her that if she had nowhere to go that she could go there and they would take her in. During this time a friend of his from an old adventuring party showed up, and while friendly to the girl knew that if there was a child githyanki that a creche was likely nearby and he returned home to prepare.

At this time the githyanki showed up as they had been looking for her and killed the druid and forced her back to the creche, breaking Vaelis' heart.

A few weeks later she woke up to the sound of fighting and saw a large force from a city attacking the creche. Running away during the fighting she went straight back to where she met the halfling druid and started trying to find the Circle he told her about. They found her first and when she name-dropped the druid they brought her back for questioning.

She was ultimately accepted and they started raising her in the Circle, eventually she took on their ways and became a druid herself.

Very well done. If I was the OP I would very much find this scenario helpful even if it could be countered. At the end of the day it lends one to think of possibilities.

Yup.

That's one thing I love about having an established setting and lore for the races, if the player can give me a good enough reason when I'm the DM for why they want a race to be a class that normally wouldn't fit then I'm all for it.

My scenario would also help explain Vaelis having unique Githyanki dialogue options because she would have been raised in a creche and knew how to act and what was expected of her while her upbringing as a druid would help her have all the other dialogue options.

I personally think it would be great if a llolth-sworn cleric, moving to the drow, should be able to have more deities than llolth, and if you are a male have all the options BUT Llolth, because that is what the lore says.

But ah well.

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by Aldain:

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

Ah, forgot about prestige classes. Good catch.

Man prestige classes were such oddball things back then.

They were usually either comically broken or hysterically impractical from what I hear.

Yeah, I was very much not a fan of them, which is partially why I forgot they existed just now.

[Mr Pibbleton]

Originally posted by Vixzian:

Originally posted by Mr Pibbleton:

What race should be allowed to be a basketball player and are there any further restriction to the Harlem Globetrotter prestige class?



So your argument is that you're making assumption on the first point and based on that assumption your second point, which doesn't even make sense logically.

Those aren't assumptions those are facts based in lore and verified in existing material within the 5e ruleset. What I mean by that is why it doesn't say specifically 'No Paladins' it does say everything else about Lolthes views on the warrior class, her views on males, and how the hierarchy works within Lolth's matriarchal society.

Bro, you stated Lloth doesn't allow female warriors therefore no paladins, which is pretty out there, because they're two different classes then you said if a title was unworthy of a female, it's not worthy for a male. Which is absurd because not every lady that worships lloth is a cleric or a wizard. Also you're the first person I've heard say that Drow women Lloth followers can't be warriors.

You are making a series of leaps of logic worthy of the olympics.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Originally posted by Aldain:

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

Ah, forgot about prestige classes. Good catch.

Man prestige classes were such oddball things back then.

They were either comically broken or hysterically impractical from what I hear.

I think that's only the case if you got into the math or numbers of it. Outside of that the options it created and the cool factor of those classes was amazing and one of the big things about 3.5 that made it popular. People love more options that expand the imagination.

The push back comes where you remove the options while selling it as this new package of where anything can be everything within the basic confines of the base classes. While it may dampen complexity it also creates less depth particularly from those who don't think of D&D as a game without boundaries where anything and everything is possible or that don't want to spend time fleshing out the ideas of the player that came to the table with the ideas of an Elven Bladesinger when it could already be done for them or whose imaginations aren't able to conceive ideas like those themselves.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Originally posted by Mr Pibbleton:

Originally posted by Vixzian:

Those aren't assumptions those are facts based in lore and verified in existing material within the 5e ruleset. What I mean by that is why it doesn't say specifically 'No Paladins' it does say everything else about Lolthes views on the warrior class, her views on males, and how the hierarchy works within Lolth's matriarchal society.

Bro, you stated Lloth doesn't allow female warriors therefore no paladins, which is pretty out there, because they're two different classes then you said if a title was unworthy of a female, it's not worthy for a male. Which is absurd because not every lady that worships lloth is a cleric or a wizard. Also you're the first person I've heard say that Drow women Lloth followers can't be warriors.

You are making a series of leaps of logic worthy of the olympics.

Wrong that's not what I said. Please go back and read. No where did I say that Lolth does not allow female warriors. Start there.

[Lucifer]

Originally posted by Vixzian:

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

Let me try.

*cough* I'll start off with some basic facts about Githyanki culture so everyone is on the same page and use that as a framework to create a backstory for a Githyanki druid.

As the Githyanki are effectively space/planar vikings in this setting, and they live in the etheral plane (which GREATLY expands their lifespan as they don't age while in it) that when it comes to having kids and laying eggs they actively HAVE to leave the Ethereal Plane and form a creche, which act as nurseries, schools, supply depots, libraries, training grounds and more.

Newly hatched Gith are raised in a creche until they come of an age where they are able to fight and have been educated on the types of enemies they will be fighting, especially the mind flayers whom the Githyanki see as mortal enemies, they are then sent on what is effectively a pilgrimage. Githyanki are not considered adults until they bring back the head of a mind flayer.

Because they are effectively enemies of everyone, planeshifting to raid others while also constantly hunting mind flayers it wouldn't be a surprise that when a creche is discovered that they are attacked and probably destroyed by those capable of doing it.

With these facts, let us begin.

Vaelis was a young githyanki who was born and raised in Creche Tilar hidden deep in a jungle. She was always curious about what lay outside of the creche and tried sneaking both out and into the library to learn more. Every time she got outside she would see a different animal and grew fascinated. Her handlers used force to bring her in line.

They received a visitor from the Ethereal Plane from an older gith who came to show off the head of a mind flayer and during the celebration of adulthood Vaelis snuck out again and no one noticed she was gone for several hours as a result, during which time she got lost in the forest.

A kind halfling druid heard her crying and came to investigate the sound and saw a githyanki girl by a tree alone and afraid. He offered her food and a place to stay, being the first person alive who showed the girl genuine kindness. She was fascinated by his power over nature, his willingness to answer any question asked and became more and more fascinated.

He was part of a nearby Circle of Druids and told her that if she had nowhere to go that she could go there and they would take her in. During this time a friend of his from an old adventuring party showed up, and while friendly to the girl knew that if there was a child githyanki that a creche was likely nearby and he returned home to prepare.

At this time the githyanki showed up as they had been looking for her and killed the druid and forced her back to the creche, breaking Vaelis' heart.

A few weeks later she woke up to the sound of fighting and saw a large force from a city attacking the creche. Running away during the fighting she went straight back to where she met the halfling druid and started trying to find the Circle he told her about. They found her first and when she name-dropped the druid they brought her back for questioning.

She was ultimately accepted and they started raising her in the Circle, eventually she took on their ways and became a druid herself.

Very well done. If I was the OP I would very much find this scenario helpful even if it could be countered. At the end of the day it lends one to think of possibilities.

Bruh literally what I was telling for this 10 hours lol

[Mr Pibbleton]

Originally posted by Vixzian:

Originally posted by Order_Guardian:

Yeah, he can. Paladin with an "Oath of Conquest" archetype, for example. It will be some kind of inquisitor (and punisher of revilting slaves) in such case.

So the counter would be that Lolth does not allow Drow sworn to her as Paladins. Why? Because female warriors are considered bottom caste so why would she raise something she doesn't respect in the least as worthy of the holy title of Paladin?

Oh I see what you're saying is that Lloth holds Paladins in too high a regard to allow a female warrior to become one, let alone a male warrior, which logically means since she considers it prestigious, she would totally allow women to be paladins. It's too prestigious for the boys though.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Originally posted by Mr Pibbleton:

Originally posted by Vixzian:

So the counter would be that Lolth does not allow Drow sworn to her as Paladins. Why? Because female warriors are considered bottom caste so why would she raise something she doesn't respect in the least as worthy of the holy title of Paladin?

Oh I see what you're saying is that Lloth holds Paladins in too high a regard to allow a female warrior to become one, let alone a male warrior, which logically means since she considers it prestigious, she would totally allow women to be paladins. It's too prestigious for the boys though.

No what I'm saying is that she thinks of warriors in the way that a CEO thinks of custodians. Yes the building needs to be cleaned but does she value them as she does the President of the company? No... not by any means in fact she barely notices they exist other than to perform a function.

Paladins are considered Holy warriors or warriors of the faith. Read page 82 of the 5e PHB. The description listed their alone would explain another big wrench in an evil god having Paladins but I'm not even going there...

Where I'm going with this is the fact that a goddess who does not value warriors as anything certainly wouldn't then take said thing and create an elevation of it. Like why? It would be like having a Sr. Custodian.

[Auburn2]

Originally posted by Jester Perv:

Gith can be cleric, druid, paladin and so on, any race can take any class? How is this make sense? Lolth sworn Drow can be paladin? What?

Yes. This is how 5E is too. Key to this idea is you tell your story.

[Mr Pibbleton]

Originally posted by Vixzian:

Originally posted by Mr Pibbleton:

Oh I see what you're saying is that Lloth holds Paladins in too high a regard to allow a female warrior to become one, let alone a male warrior, which logically means since she considers it prestigious, she would totally allow women to be paladins. It's too prestigious for the boys though.

No what I'm saying is that she thinks of warriors in the way that a CEO thinks of custodians. Yes the building needs to be cleaned but does she value them as she does the President of the company? No... not by any means in fact she barely notices they exist other than to perform a function.

Paladins are considered Holy warriors or warriors of the faith. Read page 82 of the 5e PHB. The description listed their alone would explain another big wrench in an evil god having Paladins but I'm not even going there...

Where I'm going with this is the fact that a goddess who does not value warriors as anything certainly wouldn't then take said thing and create an elevation of it. Like why? It would be like having a Sr. Custodian.

1, Senior Custodians are a thing and they are respected.

2. Paladins are oath based in 5e, if the paladin follows an oath that doesn't conflict with Lloth's teachings, it's cool. Now you CAN make an argument that an oath of devotion or ancients order of paladins would be a bad fit for Lloth's faith. Glory and conquest? Hell, half of Menzoberranzan is practically on those oaths already. Paladins in 5e don't draw their power from a specific god, it's about the oath, even oathbreakers still have paladin powers. Could a drow male be a fervent Lloth worshiper and become a Paladin in her name while following a compatible oath? That's up to the GM to decide. How you run your campaign, well, that's your call.

In addendum: I remember reading the Finder's stone trilogy and thinking it was the dumbest thing that halflings couldn't be bards, what the hell? Race class restrictions are ridiculous, if you can make a halfway decent argument as to why a combo should exist, that's fine.

3. Seriously, respect the custodians, most of the increase in human life expectancy can be attributed to living in more hygienic conditions. You live longer and better thanks to them.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Originally posted by Auburn2:

Originally posted by Jester Perv:

Gith can be cleric, druid, paladin and so on, any race can take any class? How is this make sense? Lolth sworn Drow can be paladin? What?

Yes. This is how 5E is too. Key to this idea is you tell your story.

Honestly probably the best answer imo. If you can explain it in a way that makes sense within the boundaries of whatever the DM uses as rules then you would most likely find that it's possible. Often times the DM will even bend the rules a bit to allow for something that wouldn't normally be the case in the rule set if you have a compelling story to tell.

A far better answer than "Just because" or "Then don't make one".

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Originally posted by Mr Pibbleton:

Originally posted by Vixzian:

No what I'm saying is that she thinks of warriors in the way that a CEO thinks of custodians. Yes the building needs to be cleaned but does she value them as she does the President of the company? No... not by any means in fact she barely notices they exist other than to perform a function.

Paladins are considered Holy warriors or warriors of the faith. Read page 82 of the 5e PHB. The description listed their alone would explain another big wrench in an evil god having Paladins but I'm not even going there...

Where I'm going with this is the fact that a goddess who does not value warriors as anything certainly wouldn't then take said thing and create an elevation of it. Like why? It would be like having a Sr. Custodian.

1, Senior Custodians are a thing and they are respected.

2. Paladins are oath based in 5e, if the paladin follows an oath that doesn't conflict with Lloth's teachings, it's cool. Now you CAN make an argument that an oath of devotion or ancients order of paladins would be a bad fit for Lloth's faith. Glory and conquest? Hell, half of Menzoberranzan is practically on those oaths already. Paladins in 5e don't draw their power from a specific god, it's about the oath, even oathbreakers still have paladin powers. Could a drow male be a fervent Lloth worshiper and become a Paladin in her name while following a compatible oath? That's up to the GM to decide. How you run your campaign, well, that's your call.

In addendum: I remember reading the Finder's stone trilogy and thinking it was the dumbest thing that halflings couldn't be bards, what the hell? Race class restrictions are ridiculous, if you can make a halfway decent argument as to why a combo should exist, that's fine.

3. Seriously, respect the custodians, most of the increase in human life expectancy can be attributed to living in more hygienic conditions. You live longer and better thanks to them.

You're getting lost in your own need to make a point.

The idea isn't to flesh out the importance of custodians the idea is how the profession is perceived in the general public particularly as the head of a company. Not how specific individuals may percieve it.

Once you understand that then you can understand how small that is to a Goddess.

It's also obvious you didn't read the PHB. Your answer is right there with regard to Paladins. Take that a step further and read the hierarchy of Lolth sworn society and that closes the book on the possibility of a Paladin outside of some "I created one just because" scenario.

Unlike the Gith, Lolth sworn drow have a very in depth lore and very specific and unique societal characteristics so it's next to impossible to create a scenario where certain things such as the whole male cleric thing as an example would be possible and actually make sense.