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Oh My God! It's Jason Bourne! Jun 9, 2023 @ 8:00pm
So there are no race restricted classes?
Gith can be cleric, druid, paladin and so on, any race can take any class? How is this make sense? Lolth sworn Drow can be paladin? What?
Last edited by Oh My God! It's Jason Bourne!; Jun 9, 2023 @ 8:03pm
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Originally posted by Dragon Master:
Originally posted by Vixzian:
Reminder that the recent bans were due to going off topic. I know this from experience.

On topic however, it's like people forgot how to use critical thinking skills. No one cares about what the player can do, it's about why they would do it other than 'just cuz'. People do this weird thing where they dance around the answer as if to fix a stain on a window with a hammer.

So to clarify. The OP doesn't care about characters 'vibing' or what the player can do within the rules of the game. What the OP cares about is why, as a Gith in their example, it would make sense for said Gith to be able to have the profession of Druid. I know it's tough but I believe some of you can be imaginative within the boundaries of the culture.

Let me try.

*cough* I'll start off with some basic facts about Githyanki culture so everyone is on the same page and use that as a framework to create a backstory for a Githyanki druid.

As the Githyanki are effectively space/planar vikings in this setting, and they live in the etheral plane (which GREATLY expands their lifespan as they don't age while in it) that when it comes to having kids and laying eggs they actively HAVE to leave the Ethereal Plane and form a creche, which act as nurseries, schools, supply depots, libraries, training grounds and more.

Newly hatched Gith are raised in a creche until they come of an age where they are able to fight and have been educated on the types of enemies they will be fighting, especially the mind flayers whom the Githyanki see as mortal enemies, they are then sent on what is effectively a pilgrimage. Githyanki are not considered adults until they bring back the head of a mind flayer.

Because they are effectively enemies of everyone, planeshifting to raid others while also constantly hunting mind flayers it wouldn't be a surprise that when a creche is discovered that they are attacked and probably destroyed by those capable of doing it.

With these facts, let us begin.

Vaelis was a young githyanki who was born and raised in Creche Tilar hidden deep in a jungle. She was always curious about what lay outside of the creche and tried sneaking both out and into the library to learn more. Every time she got outside she would see a different animal and grew fascinated. Her handlers used force to bring her in line.

They received a visitor from the Ethereal Plane from an older gith who came to show off the head of a mind flayer and during the celebration of adulthood Vaelis snuck out again and no one noticed she was gone for several hours as a result, during which time she got lost in the forest.

A kind halfling druid heard her crying and came to investigate the sound and saw a githyanki girl by a tree alone and afraid. He offered her food and a place to stay, being the first person alive who showed the girl genuine kindness. She was fascinated by his power over nature, his willingness to answer any question asked and became more and more fascinated.

He was part of a nearby Circle of Druids and told her that if she had nowhere to go that she could go there and they would take her in. During this time a friend of his from an old adventuring party showed up, and while friendly to the girl knew that if there was a child githyanki that a creche was likely nearby and he returned home to prepare.

At this time the githyanki showed up as they had been looking for her and killed the druid and forced her back to the creche, breaking Vaelis' heart.

A few weeks later she woke up to the sound of fighting and saw a large force from a city attacking the creche. Running away during the fighting she went straight back to where she met the halfling druid and started trying to find the Circle he told her about. They found her first and when she name-dropped the druid they brought her back for questioning.

She was ultimately accepted and they started raising her in the Circle, eventually she took on their ways and became a druid herself.
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Showing 196-210 of 270 comments
Sonic Titan Jun 12, 2023 @ 10:57am 
Originally posted by Hex:
Originally posted by lazarusblack:
Also, agreed.

With the caveat that I think that larian should still adhere to the lore and the rules, that make, for example a male drow cleric follower of Lloth restricted. It makes sense from a lore perspective and it actively breaks the lore of the Drow to allow it.

As for non human Paladins, there is no really compelling lore reason for it.

"Compelling" has nothing to do with anything. Rules are NOT a matter of personal opinion. You not following the rules is fine, but no one is under any obligation to go along with you not following the rules.
My snowflake wizard casts ice storm on you.
#196
Hex Jun 12, 2023 @ 11:10am 
Originally posted by Sonic Titan:
Originally posted by Hex:

"Compelling" has nothing to do with anything. Rules are NOT a matter of personal opinion. You not following the rules is fine, but no one is under any obligation to go along with you not following the rules.
My snowflake wizard casts ice storm on you.

Well MY Wizard's dad will beat your Wizard!
#197
lazarusblack Jun 12, 2023 @ 11:20am 
Originally posted by Yojo0o:
BG1-2 restricted race/class combinations... just cause. Rules, not lore.

5e has no such restrictions.

Larian is adhering to the rules just fine, which is what BG1-2 did for their edition. Now, arguably, they let us stretch lore parameters a bit for our personal character, but I don't think it's anything outrageous.
Gonna be honest, my recollection of ADnD ruleset is rusty and I can't say i ever played Paladin back then. I didn't DM in ADnD either so there was little reason for me to pay too much attention.

There are two things I'd look to for why a restriction might be in place and if it's okay to waive the restriction. That is lore and balance. If the rule exists for lore purposes, then it stays. If that lore makes sense, then the rule is valid and it stays.

If there is a contradiction between the lore and a rule, than i check to see if the rule exists for balance reasons. Perhaps the combination is unusually powerful beyond the intended power level for the class. In this case I would look to the lore to see how wide ranging it's waiving would be. If I can make an exception and introduce some background drawbacks to compensate for the imbalance, without having to alter the fundamental nature of a race/culture/system. Then it's workable but it takes a sit down session with a prospective player to make sure that the changes are fully understood and that the player knows what they can and cant do.

If what you have is one of those rare instances, where the rules just happen to clash with the lore, because someone didn't pay attention when writing the stuff, then i will usually adopt either the lore or the rule, which ever causes the least amount of disruption to the gameplay for everyone else.

For ADnD, in the context of the Paladin/human requirement, I would have to understand the lore context for the rules to gauge whether the decision to restrict it, was valid or not. Personally, I'd find it a rule I would have no issue setting aside as a DM today, if there was no real lore or balance reason for it's inclusion. I'd even have used a mod to correct what I felt was a misjudgement or misinterpretation of the rules in a CRPG that implemented them that way, if the lore didn't offer a compelling reason for it and I wouldn't feel like I had broken the lore of the world in doing so or created an unbalanced character.

Originally posted by Hex:
Any rules they stretch is done with explicit consent from WotC. Some random persons headcanon is not the same at all.
Is it wrong of me to say, that I don't have the greatest faith in the current Wotc ensemble and I don't put much stock in their decisions lol There it is, I guess. My confession.

Originally posted by Hex:
"Compelling" has nothing to do with anything. Rules are NOT a matter of personal opinion. You not following the rules is fine, but no one is under any obligation to go along with you not following the rules.

This is the same thing as people screaming that they have a right to their opinion. Well, so am I to mine, and my opinion is that their opinion is a bad one.
Rules serve a purpose and are not an end in themselves. If the rules don't make sense, then it's time to change the rules. If there is sense to the rules, be it for balance or lore/narrative purposes, then the rules serve their purpose and should be followed.

Broken rules serve no purpose and should be pruned.
Last edited by lazarusblack; Jun 12, 2023 @ 11:21am
#198
Hex Jun 12, 2023 @ 11:37am 
Originally posted by lazarusblack:

Broken rules serve no purpose and should be pruned.

You can follow or not follow any rules you wish, at your own table. That does not mean you then get to go to an Online forum and tell everyone else what the rule YOU made up are.

Your opinion on the official rules does not change the official rules no matter how stupid they are. Only WotC can change the official rules.
Last edited by Hex; Jun 12, 2023 @ 11:39am
#199
Sonic Titan Jun 12, 2023 @ 11:39am 
Originally posted by Hex:
Originally posted by lazarusblack:

Broken rules serve no purpose and should be pruned.

You can follow or not follow any rules you wish, at your own table. That does not mean you then get to go to an Online forum and tell everyone else what the rule YOU made up are.
Regarding BG3, we're at Larian's table though, right?
#200
lazarusblack Jun 12, 2023 @ 11:41am 
Originally posted by Hex:
Originally posted by lazarusblack:

Broken rules serve no purpose and should be pruned.

You can follow or not follow any rules you wish, at your own table. That does not mean you then get to go to an Online forum and tell everyone else what the rule YOU made up are.
Realistically, the rules are being set by Larian and Wotc, all we can do is discuss if their interpretation is accurate and correct or not. We can't realistically change the rules in question. The discussions here are just that. Discussions. The outcomes of which are pretty irrelevant. They are however interesting, which is largely why you'll find me participating in debates that have no real likelihood of changing anything lol
#201
Hex Jun 12, 2023 @ 11:44am 
Originally posted by Sonic Titan:
Originally posted by Hex:

You can follow or not follow any rules you wish, at your own table. That does not mean you then get to go to an Online forum and tell everyone else what the rule YOU made up are.
Regarding BG3, we're at Larian's table though, right?

Technically, yes in essence but since it's an official product created with a licensing agreement, it's not that simple.
#202
Yojo0o Jun 12, 2023 @ 11:44am 
Originally posted by lazarusblack:
Originally posted by Hex:

You can follow or not follow any rules you wish, at your own table. That does not mean you then get to go to an Online forum and tell everyone else what the rule YOU made up are.
Realistically, the rules are being set by Larian and Wotc, all we can do is discuss if their interpretation is accurate and correct or not. We can't realistically change the rules in question. The discussions here are just that. Discussions. The outcomes of which are pretty irrelevant. They are however interesting, which is largely why you'll find me participating in debates that have no real likelihood of changing anything lol

I might suggest that we DO have some control over this: These unusual combinations do not exist in the game we play unless we opt to add them ourselves.

It's not like the druid grove in act 1 just has drow and githyanki druids vibing like they're a totally normal thing.
#203
Hex Jun 12, 2023 @ 11:48am 
Originally posted by lazarusblack:
Originally posted by Hex:

You can follow or not follow any rules you wish, at your own table. That does not mean you then get to go to an Online forum and tell everyone else what the rule YOU made up are.
Realistically, the rules are being set by Larian and Wotc, all we can do is discuss if their interpretation is accurate and correct or not. We can't realistically change the rules in question. The discussions here are just that. Discussions. The outcomes of which are pretty irrelevant. They are however interesting, which is largely why you'll find me participating in debates that have no real likelihood of changing anything lol

And if people don't discuss these things then Larian has no reference point on how their customers see such things.

At the end of the day, Larian and WotC can do whatever they want, that does not mean I'm not going to voice my opinion on it.
Last edited by Hex; Jun 12, 2023 @ 11:50am
#204
lazarusblack Jun 12, 2023 @ 11:51am 
Originally posted by Yojo0o:
Originally posted by lazarusblack:
Realistically, the rules are being set by Larian and Wotc, all we can do is discuss if their interpretation is accurate and correct or not. We can't realistically change the rules in question. The discussions here are just that. Discussions. The outcomes of which are pretty irrelevant. They are however interesting, which is largely why you'll find me participating in debates that have no real likelihood of changing anything lol

I might suggest that we DO have some control over this: These unusual combinations do not exist in the game we play unless we opt to add them ourselves.

It's not like the druid grove in act 1 just has drow and githyanki druids vibing like they're a totally normal thing.
But it does have an army of Tieflings, which I find very jarring. So much for this rare and unusual race being... rare and unusual? But now I'm nitpicking.

My largest objection from the viewpoint on race/class restrictions in BG3, is if Larian starts making in-game references for things like... Llolth Sword, Male Drow Clerics. That really goes against the lore and It makes cannon a change that I think detracts from the individuality and uniqueness of one of DnD's races.

Same with the Gith Druid. I really hope there is a good narrative explanation for why a Gith is your average run of the mill druid. Unless Gith get a unique subclass of Druid that makes the class choice more legitimate. I haven't really looked how Gith have been implemented in the game. Is Gith Druid a thing?
#205
lazarusblack Jun 12, 2023 @ 11:51am 
Originally posted by Hex:
Originally posted by lazarusblack:
Realistically, the rules are being set by Larian and Wotc, all we can do is discuss if their interpretation is accurate and correct or not. We can't realistically change the rules in question. The discussions here are just that. Discussions. The outcomes of which are pretty irrelevant. They are however interesting, which is largely why you'll find me participating in debates that have no real likelihood of changing anything lol

And if people don't discuss these things then Larian has no reference point on how their customers see such things.

At the end of the day, Larian and WotC can do whatever they want, that does not mean I'm not going to voice my opinion on it.
Absolutely. I totally agree.
#206
Sonic Titan Jun 12, 2023 @ 11:57am 
Originally posted by Hex:
Technically
Technically correct? The best kind of correct!
#207
Hex Jun 12, 2023 @ 12:17pm 
Originally posted by lazarusblack:
Originally posted by Yojo0o:

I might suggest that we DO have some control over this: These unusual combinations do not exist in the game we play unless we opt to add them ourselves.

It's not like the druid grove in act 1 just has drow and githyanki druids vibing like they're a totally normal thing.
But it does have an army of Tieflings, which I find very jarring. So much for this rare and unusual race being... rare and unusual? But now I'm nitpicking.

You can thank WotC for that with their Descent into Avernus campaign.
#208
lazarusblack Jun 12, 2023 @ 12:38pm 
Originally posted by Hex:
Originally posted by lazarusblack:
But it does have an army of Tieflings, which I find very jarring. So much for this rare and unusual race being... rare and unusual? But now I'm nitpicking.

You can thank WotC for that with their Descent into Avernus campaign.
Even more reason to regard Wotc with a suggestively raised eyebrow.
#209
Hex Jun 12, 2023 @ 12:46pm 
Originally posted by lazarusblack:
Originally posted by Hex:

You can thank WotC for that with their Descent into Avernus campaign.
Even more reason to regard Wotc with a suggestively raised eyebrow.

Could be worse, could be Avariel.
#210
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Date Posted: Jun 9, 2023 @ 8:00pm
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