PnP/DnD Comunity gatekeeping and toxicity

[[JdG] Pejman]

What is wrong with the PnP/DnD comunity seriously ?? I was excited to play this game but all that excitment was killed by discussing with PnP "hardocre" fans. The toxicity and gatekeeping of this comunity was unknown to me. Simply because one doesnt think that copy pasting PnP mechanics to a game that will mostly be played by people solo doesnt give you a right to spit venom and insults. saying that I enjoyed DOS2 combat mechanics don't enable people to trash talk me.

I often say that the video game experience isn't just the game but also what around it, well it that case the experience was pretty horrible ...

[Nathiri]

not_harvey

I get it. Like I said, I literally have the book because I need it for PnP as well.

Maybe BG3 is different enough to feel obtuse and people don't have the answers at a tooltip and then they hit the forum and get answers that don't feel helpful (like that you can respec class and attributes at withers but you can't change race or background). Struggling on or starting over is not a nice solution.

But it's also the case that the first levels are harder, positioning can be difficult and some builds take longer to come together. And like you say there's a LOT of spells. So the best to do is experiment or google what other people use.

It is a great combat system and i think people will feel rewarded in the end though. Not after 100h or anything, but it might take a bit of time to click. I don't mean click in a a "I am very smort" way but just that you get the feel of what works for your party. And since difficulty can be freely changed people can also adjust that up and down as they like.

[[JdG] Pejman]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Gwynhara:

Obviously you can't do that in a video game with set piece encounters, and so you end up with what we have here, where the game doesn't flow very well from a video game perspective. It flows well enough from the perspective of an attempt to simulate a tabletop game played solo, using tabletop rules with an automated DM who has no flexibility (hence automated) ... but that is neither tabletop DnD nor a video game. And that's where it rankles people who came to BG3 expecting it to be a video game, when it really isn't that. The people who like the game the best are the ones who like the fact that it's a simulation of the tabletop game played solo with an automated DM.

Thank you
Even though I tell people I dont mind PnP rules in PnP (I did play PnP when I had freinds who could back in the days, now we are all busy) and that my issue is that it is foolish to try to adapt them 1:1 for a video game. A video game, especially single player is it's own thing and the game should be thought as such.

[not harvey]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Liguar:

not_harvey

I get it. Like I said, I literally have the book because I need it for PnP as well.

Maybe BG3 is different enough to feel obtuse and people don't have the answers at a tooltip and then they hit the forum and get answers that don't feel helpful (like that you can respec class and attributes at withers but you can't change race or background). Struggling on or starting over is not a nice solution.

But it's also the case that the first levels are harder, positioning can be difficult and some builds take longer to come together. And like you say there's a LOT of spells. So the best to do is experiment or google what other people use.

It is a great combat system and i think people will feel rewarded in the end though. Not after 100h or anything, but it might take a bit of time to click. I don't mean click in a a "I am very smort" way but just that you get the feel of what works for your party. And since difficulty can be freely changed people can also adjust that up and down as they like.

I trust that its a well balanced combat system, I just have issues with the way it works from the perspective of a video game.

In a dnd session people might have a good joke and a laugh at the one guy that keeps missing every shot - and it becomes part of the social fun, but solo, in a video game, its just sad.

Modern PC games are very careful about when they use random numbers, and what the random ranges are, because humans are very bad at understanding probability and will always focus heavily on the negative random outcomes when they happen.

[Cosmo 🐲]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JdG Pejman:

What is wrong with the PnP/DnD comunity seriously ?? I was excited to play this game but all that excitment was killed by discussing with PnP "hardocre" fans. The toxicity and gatekeeping of this comunity was unknown to me. Simply because one doesnt think that copy pasting PnP mechanics to a game that will mostly be played by people solo doesnt give you a right to spit venom and insults. saying that I enjoyed DOS2 combat mechanics don't enable people to trash talk me.

I often say that the video game experience isn't just the game but also what around it, well it that case the experience was pretty horrible ...

So, im not a fan of DoS 1+2, im not saying they are bad, they are just not for me, but i love BG3.
It dosnt justify trash talking, just because people disagree, i read somewhere that people with higher intellect are the ones that are able to disagree and still talk nice to others.

I have some advices :
1. Ignore/Block them.
2. Dont engage in discussions with them.
3. Avoid the forum if it reaches a level where it ruins your will to play the game.

[Nathiri]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von not harvey:

I trust that its a well balanced combat system, I just have issues with the way it works from the perspective of a video game.

In a dnd session people might have a good joke and a laugh at the one guy that keeps missing every shot - and it becomes part of the social fun, but solo, in a video game, its just sad.

Modern PC games are very careful about when they use random numbers, and what the random ranges are, because humans are very bad at understanding probability and will always focus heavily on the negative random outcomes when they happen.

thank you, you've made me realise I've been looking at this game entirely as roleplay with the maths as a condiment. I play coop with my spouse who also DMs our games, and he's always asking me when i do something stupid if I want to live with it, or reset.

My feeling is, if I do something dumb by choice, I wanted to do the dumb thing (I try roleplay my character to the tee) but If i missclick and do something unintended i accept a reload. Vamp man got 2 critical misses in one short combat, nearly ruining everything, and we just laughed, because it's like that. I could see that looking at it from a videogame perspective it would feel not random, "fair" or funny, just bloody annoying.

So you're right, it's really difficult for me to judge the fun and balance for others as a videogame because I'm still playing it like social PnP and believing others need to lighten up. Which is wrong.

Edit. forgot to say, once you start hitting those inspiration triggers you will often have some rerolls available to help mitigate the the disastrous ones without loading a save.

[Automatic-Kalashnikov 47]

Nerds will always do some gatekeeping, its in their nature.

[ACS36]

Don't worry about p&p purists.

This is a video game first and can't be completely designed around p&p rulesets because an actual DM can improvise. Computer games aren't to that point yet, and they may never be, if AI tech becomes monopolized by the major companies.

[Cosmo 🐲]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von not harvey:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Liguar:

not_harvey

I get it. Like I said, I literally have the book because I need it for PnP as well.

Maybe BG3 is different enough to feel obtuse and people don't have the answers at a tooltip and then they hit the forum and get answers that don't feel helpful (like that you can respec class and attributes at withers but you can't change race or background). Struggling on or starting over is not a nice solution.

But it's also the case that the first levels are harder, positioning can be difficult and some builds take longer to come together. And like you say there's a LOT of spells. So the best to do is experiment or google what other people use.

It is a great combat system and i think people will feel rewarded in the end though. Not after 100h or anything, but it might take a bit of time to click. I don't mean click in a a "I am very smort" way but just that you get the feel of what works for your party. And since difficulty can be freely changed people can also adjust that up and down as they like.

I trust that its a well balanced combat system, I just have issues with the way it works from the perspective of a video game.

In a dnd session people might have a good joke and a laugh at the one guy that keeps missing every shot - and it becomes part of the social fun, but solo, in a video game, its just sad.

Modern PC games are very careful about when they use random numbers, and what the random ranges are, because humans are very bad at understanding probability and will always focus heavily on the negative random outcomes when they happen.

I had a bard that was really good at performing, but every time i tried to perfom in public he failed hes skill check. It became a standing joke to this day in our group

[Nathiri]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Player 1 (Cosmo):

I had a bard that was really good at performing, but every time i tried to perfom in public he failed hes skill check. It became a standing joke to this day in our group :lunar2019laughingpig:

My bard would like to know if your bard wants to start a band for badly performing bards?

[Feels]

you sound like you enjoy romance in this game

[Roaming Zombie]

Or maybe your 'opinion' is more whining. I dont go to FPS game forums saying I would rather use swords. Or to the beach complaning about the lack of ice.

[[JdG] Pejman]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Roaming Zombie:

Or maybe your 'opinion' is more whining. I dont go to FPS game forums saying I would rather use swords. Or to the beach complaning about the lack of ice.

once again thanks for proving my point of toxic pnp fans

this isnt a pnp table top game this is a video game mostly played solo by most people
so according to you you are the one in the wrong. I didnt come to say PnP games shouldnt have dice rolls or whatever. I said that using the rules of a multiplayer PnP tabletop game with human DM in a video game isnt good.