Let's talk about Jaheira a little

[echoes222]

So, as someone who enjoyed original BG games, I was happy that she was announced. She wasn't my favourite, but I liked her well enough (Minsc on the other hand was always a big meh to me, so didn't care about him). When I saw her at the inn, I was like "yeah, she kinda looks like +100 years old Jaheira. And her dialogue sounds a lot like what original one would say". And then two things happened - I've inspected her and saw her in combat. So here lays the issue: she is waaaaaaay too weak for original Jaheira. Original one should be in 5e equivalent of epic levels. She should be equipped in artefact quality gear. hell, she should be able to solo all of these Shadowlands, short of entering Moonrise, since she doesn't have parasite. So unless further down the line I won't be surprised by her being actually a shapeshifter, not a real deal, I'd like Larian to tell us why the hell she regressed so much? I really enjoy this game, but original Jaheira + 100 additional years of experience should be immensely powerful, and she is not. And that breaks my immersion. Hard.

[wendigo211]

Actually, she should look young. Since 2nd ed. Druids got that whole "Ageless Body" thing once they hit level 15 and she definitely was more than level 15 in the original saga.

[echoes222]

your argument don't work in d&d setting. You don't get pushed from epic levels fighter/druid back to level 8 nobody. it just doesn't happen in the lore. If they wanted to do fan service, they should go with someone else, make Jaheira infirm, or just an advice npc instead of companion. Or maybe even better - make her lvl 12 character with some extra powers, that would join you only for an assault but later leave your party.

[echoes222]

Messaggio originale di wendigo211:

Actually, she should look young. Since 2nd ed. Druids got that whole "Ageless Body" thing once they hit level 15 and she definitely was more than level 15 in the original saga.

didn't knew, another argument for bad implementation, thanks for that.

[echoes222]

Messaggio originale di robilar5500:

People age differently. Some age well, some don't.

she aged well. Just lost a dozen levels in the process and some epic gear :D

[WeenerTuck813]

Messaggio originale di echoes222:

your argument don't work in d&d setting. You don't get pushed from epic levels fighter/druid back to level 8 nobody. it just doesn't happen in the lore. If they wanted to do fan service, they should go with someone else, make Jaheira infirm, or just an advice npc instead of companion. Or maybe even better - make her lvl 12 character with some extra powers, that would join you only for an assault but later leave your party.

This is so not true.

Gale was an Arch Wizard. There’s tons of examples of people getting pushed back in power.

[Cuddle_Rat]

I never had the chance to play whatever BG game she originally showed up in, so all I know oh her is how she brainlessly rushed a super tentacle plant creature whilst gravely wounded and got the big SPLAT. 10/10 contribution from her if her goal was to fertilize the ground.

[Snobby Hobo]

She unironically got 1 shot in the second turn in the assault on the castle in my game.

The other harpers she brings along are totally useless as well (albeit oddly tanky, with MORE health than Jaheira for whatever reason).

I agree that she's comically weak.

[XartaX]

Messaggio originale di echoes222:

Messaggio originale di wendigo211:

Actually, she should look young. Since 2nd ed. Druids got that whole "Ageless Body" thing once they hit level 15 and she definitely was more than level 15 in the original saga.

didn't knew, another argument for bad implementation, thanks for that.

It's not just that. Comparing her to a "world class tennis player" is insane. The BG2 characters have reached levels reserved for literal major gods. You could take the most fit person in real life in all of human history, multiply their physical abilities by like a million, and you'd still not be close.

[echoes222]

Messaggio originale di Cuddle_Rat:

I never had the chance to play whatever BG game she originally showed up in, so all I know oh her is how she brainlessly rushed a super tentacle plant creature whilst gravely wounded and got the big SPLAT. 10/10 contribution from her if her goal was to fertilize the ground.

just a list of creatures slain by her and child of Bhaal party: multiple dragons, Irenicus, Bodhi with her REAL/high vampires cabal (so think: Astarion 20 or more Astarion daddies in one go), multiple Bhaalspawns, Demigorgon, High priestess of Bhaal, cambions, devils, demons, eye tyrants, elder brain, liches, including Kangaxx etc etc. Yet in BG3 she is not so impressive level 8 with mediocre gear. That's weak implementation.

[echoes222]

Messaggio originale di XartaX:

Messaggio originale di echoes222:

didn't knew, another argument for bad implementation, thanks for that.

It's not just that. Comparing her to a "world class tennis player" is insane. The BG2 characters have reached levels reserved for literal major gods. You could take the most fit person in real life in all of human history, multiply their physical abilities by like a million, and you'd still not be close.

Yeah, that's what I meant by "you don't get regressed so much from epic levels". Agreed.

[larhtas]

Helloooo this is D&Ddddd...
Reseting level is just balancing the game. If you would ask directly to Larian staffs they would tell you two things:
1) This is not the Jaheira from BG1&2 you are playing your are playing the canonical one. We don't know what she did maybe she stopped adventuring after Khalid death? That's up to Larian. What is for sure is: "she is not your Jaheira".
2) IT'S D&D! Larian can perfectly say something like level 20 from d&d2 is level 8 in here. They can literally make up everything.

In pillars of eternity the MC reset from level 12 to level 1 and it was perfectly fine and it was not immersion breaking. Walking around Jaheira some times now and she is mighty and powerful and the stats has nothing to do with it only her mindset is.
I'm grateful she returns and are scaled to our characters. If this displeased you so much, use a mods and set here at level 20, i guess it will be so much fun...

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Gameplay balance.
She shoud have been stronger.
When i reqruited minsc he auto-leved to 12.
The max of the game.
So why they didnt do it for Jaheira i dont know.

[ellisD]

Messaggio originale di echoes222:

Minsc on the other hand was always a big meh to me, so didn't care about him

I hope Boo eats your eyeballs

[Tolfdir]

i was hoping to hear from her how she was once in a party when one of them took the place of Bhaal.

[Wiegs]

Messaggio originale di Malaficus Shaikan:

Gameplay balance.
She shoud have been stronger.
When i reqruited minsc he auto-leved to 12.
The max of the game.
So why they didnt do it for Jaheira i dont know.

I'd say because you get her in act 2 and being level 12 in act 2 would be a little bit slightly way too overpowered