Let's talk about Jaheira a little

[echoes222]

So, as someone who enjoyed original BG games, I was happy that she was announced. She wasn't my favourite, but I liked her well enough (Minsc on the other hand was always a big meh to me, so didn't care about him). When I saw her at the inn, I was like "yeah, she kinda looks like +100 years old Jaheira. And her dialogue sounds a lot like what original one would say". And then two things happened - I've inspected her and saw her in combat. So here lays the issue: she is waaaaaaay too weak for original Jaheira. Original one should be in 5e equivalent of epic levels. She should be equipped in artefact quality gear. hell, she should be able to solo all of these Shadowlands, short of entering Moonrise, since she doesn't have parasite. So unless further down the line I won't be surprised by her being actually a shapeshifter, not a real deal, I'd like Larian to tell us why the hell she regressed so much? I really enjoy this game, but original Jaheira + 100 additional years of experience should be immensely powerful, and she is not. And that breaks my immersion. Hard.

[imbrock]

The average lifespan of a half elf in the Forgotten Realms lore is 128-180 so she could just be elderly.

[wendigo211]

Probably for the same reason Jaheira and Khalid are level 1 when you meet them at the Friendly Arm Inn in BG 1; balanced gameplay.

[Footman Connaisseur]

Originally posted by imbrock:

The average lifespan of a half elf in the Forgotten Realms lore is 128-180 so she could just be elderly.

Yeah she's just old now , she is a ranger and not a wizard that would have alot more practical use of 100 years experience in the field. she might now how to fight certain enemies , where to find cures for XYZ but her body is also alot older and it should show.

[echoes222]

Originally posted by imbrock:

The average lifespan of a half elf in the Forgotten Realms lore is 128-180 so she could just be elderly.

looking at her, she'd be equivalent of 50-55 years old human. Quick maths say that she should be around 150 years old. Still some life in her.


She still should be able to fight dragons, not cover in fear in an effing inn.

[echoes222]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Probably for the same reason Jaheira and Khalid are level 1 when you meet them at the Friendly Arm Inn in BG 1; balanced gameplay.

that's more believable than Jaheira being on equal power levels as my MC in BG3.

Originally posted by Footman Connaisseur:

Originally posted by imbrock:

The average lifespan of a half elf in the Forgotten Realms lore is 128-180 so she could just be elderly.

Yeah she's just old now , she is a ranger and not a wizard that would have alot more practical use of 100 years experience in the field. she might now how to fight certain enemies , where to find cures for XYZ but her body is also alot older and it should show.

That's another thing - any explanations why they've changed her from fighter/druid? Separately, Elminster is also old. That changes nothing in his case ;)

[Ashe]

Yeah I was a little underwhelmed when she got absolutely obliterated during one of the rougher battles she's in and just died. It actually made me not want to use her for fights since I didn't get a res chance for her.

[WeenerTuck813]

Originally posted by echoes222:

So, as someone who enjoyed original BG games, I was happy that she was announced. She wasn't my favourite, but I liked her well enough (Minsc on the other hand was always a big meh to me, so didn't care about him). When I saw her at the inn, I was like "yeah, she kinda looks like +100 years old Jaheira. And her dialogue sounds a lot like what original one would say". And then two things happened - I've inspected her and saw her in combat. So here lays the issue: she is waaaaaaay too weak for original Jaheira. Original one should be in 5e equivalent of epic levels. She should be equipped in artefact quality gear. hell, she should be able to solo all of these Shadowlands, short of entering Moonrise, since she doesn't have parasite. So unless further down the line I won't be surprised by her being actually a shapeshifter, not a real deal, I'd like Larian to tell us why the hell she regressed so much? I really enjoy this game, but original Jaheira + 100 additional years of experience should be immensely powerful, and she is not. And that breaks my immersion. Hard.

My father was a professional tennis player. He played in Wimbledon once and lost in the first round. He is the best tennis player I know.

I’m 38. My dad is pushing 70.
How come he isn’t as good at tennis now? He should be +40 years better now than then. I don’t get it.

[echoes222]

Originally posted by WeenerTuck813:

Originally posted by echoes222:

So, as someone who enjoyed original BG games, I was happy that she was announced. She wasn't my favourite, but I liked her well enough (Minsc on the other hand was always a big meh to me, so didn't care about him). When I saw her at the inn, I was like "yeah, she kinda looks like +100 years old Jaheira. And her dialogue sounds a lot like what original one would say". And then two things happened - I've inspected her and saw her in combat. So here lays the issue: she is waaaaaaay too weak for original Jaheira. Original one should be in 5e equivalent of epic levels. She should be equipped in artefact quality gear. hell, she should be able to solo all of these Shadowlands, short of entering Moonrise, since she doesn't have parasite. So unless further down the line I won't be surprised by her being actually a shapeshifter, not a real deal, I'd like Larian to tell us why the hell she regressed so much? I really enjoy this game, but original Jaheira + 100 additional years of experience should be immensely powerful, and she is not. And that breaks my immersion. Hard.

My father was a professional tennis player. He played in Wimbledon once and lost in the first round. He is the best tennis player I know.

I’m 38. My dad is pushing 70.
How come he isn’t as good at tennis now? He should be +40 years better now than then. I don’t get it.

counter for this particular "argument", but still in tennis world: Mansour Bahrami. He'd beat you and your dad in a tennis game :) she isn't frail or infirm. She is not more powerful than my fresh ranger and that's writing b/s.

[WeenerTuck813]

Originally posted by echoes222:

Originally posted by imbrock:

The average lifespan of a half elf in the Forgotten Realms lore is 128-180 so she could just be elderly.

looking at her, she'd be equivalent of 50-55 years old human. Quick maths say that she should be around 150 years old. Still some life in her.


She still should be able to fight dragons, not cover in fear in an effing inn.

No. If the typical life span of an elf is 128-180 and she is roughly 150 years old that’d translate to like ~70 years old if not a little more, as people get to like 70-100 years old.

[WeenerTuck813]

Originally posted by echoes222:

Originally posted by WeenerTuck813:

My father was a professional tennis player. He played in Wimbledon once and lost in the first round. He is the best tennis player I know.

I’m 38. My dad is pushing 70.
How come he isn’t as good at tennis now? He should be +40 years better now than then. I don’t get it.

counter for this particular "argument", but still in tennis world: Mansour Bahrami. He'd beat you and your dad in a tennis game :) she isn't frail or infirm. She is not more powerful than my fresh ranger and that's writing b/s.

Just because there is 1 65 year old man who’s still good doesn’t make that the rule, it makes it the exception. Additionally, your logic is frankly at fault at even this man you listed was SIGNIFICANTLY better at tennis 30 years ago.

Point being, he got WORSE as he aged towards end of life.

[echoes222]

Originally posted by WeenerTuck813:

Originally posted by echoes222:

looking at her, she'd be equivalent of 50-55 years old human. Quick maths say that she should be around 150 years old. Still some life in her.


She still should be able to fight dragons, not cover in fear in an effing inn.

No. If the typical life span of an elf is 128-180 and she is roughly 150 years old that’d translate to like ~70 years old if not a little more, as people get to like 70-100 years old.

then they should make her frail and infirm, not prancing around the battlefield like a pony. Also, look at her physical stats ;) plenty of rpgs would pump her mental abilities while severely gimping her physical stats. She is close to Lae'Zel in her body qualities. She obviously takes care of herself. Yet she'd downed by any fighter in my party. I don't buy these arguments. I believe she was implemented badly into this game. They should either make her infirm or powerful as hell. She is neither.

Originally posted by WeenerTuck813:

Point being, he got WORSE as he aged towards end of life.

her being WORSE but still in great shape (again, look at her str or dex) would mean she would take 5 seconds instead of 2 to solo my whole party ;) She should be in epic levels and she is level 8 when you meet her.

[Footman Connaisseur]

Originally posted by echoes222:

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Probably for the same reason Jaheira and Khalid are level 1 when you meet them at the Friendly Arm Inn in BG 1; balanced gameplay.

that's more believable than Jaheira being on equal power levels as my MC in BG3.

Originally posted by Footman Connaisseur:

Yeah she's just old now , she is a ranger and not a wizard that would have alot more practical use of 100 years experience in the field. she might now how to fight certain enemies , where to find cures for XYZ but her body is also alot older and it should show.

That's another thing - any explanations why they've changed her from fighter/druid? Separately, Elminster is also old. That changes nothing in his case ;)

I already said that , Elminster ( a wizard) has alot more practical use of 100 years because he just manifests deadly brainfarts. Jaheira is a martial fighter who relies more on her body then mind so she gets weaker with age while a wizard gets more powerful because he does not rely on a strong body to cast spells the only enemy he has to fear is dementia.

[echoes222]

Originally posted by Footman Connaisseur:

Originally posted by echoes222:

that's more believable than Jaheira being on equal power levels as my MC in BG3.


That's another thing - any explanations why they've changed her from fighter/druid? Separately, Elminster is also old. That changes nothing in his case ;)

I already said that , Elminster ( a wizard) has alot more practical use of 100 years because he just manifests deadly brainfarts. Jaheira is a martial fighter who relies more on her body then mind so she gets weaker with age while a wizard gets more powerful because he does not rely on a strong body to cast spells the only enemy he has to fear is dementia.

Actually, Jaheira is a martial druid, not just some iron pusher. I don't care if they've changed her class. Lore is lore.

[WeenerTuck813]

Originally posted by echoes222:

Originally posted by WeenerTuck813:

No. If the typical life span of an elf is 128-180 and she is roughly 150 years old that’d translate to like ~70 years old if not a little more, as people get to like 70-100 years old.

then they should make her frail and infirm, not prancing around the battlefield like a pony. Also, look at her physical stats ;) plenty of rpgs would pump her mental abilities while severely gimping her physical stats. She is close to Lae'Zel in her body qualities. She obviously takes care of herself. Yet she'd downed by any fighter in my party. I don't buy these arguments. I believe she was implemented badly into this game. They should either make her infirm or powerful as hell. She is neither.

Originally posted by WeenerTuck813:

Point being, he got WORSE as he aged towards end of life.

her being WORSE but still in great shape (again, look at her str or dex) would mean she would take 5 seconds instead of 2 to solo my whole party ;) She should be in epic levels and she is level 8 when you meet her.

There’s logical reasons for why she’d be at her current strength you just don’t want to hear them.

I could present you with irrefutable proof counter to your point and you’d perform mental gymnastics.

You don’t like how she was implemented and that’s your opinion you’re entitled to, friend.

Fact is, it’s a fantasy. If this aspect breaks its emersion then I have no clue how you can justify giant flying octopus space ships or Lizard Dragons capable of flight. Apparently breaking the laws of physics are fine by you but because Jaheria isn’t God tier it’s a problem 😂

[robilar5500]

People age differently. Some age well, some don't.