Baldur's Gate 3

Baldur's Gate 3

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Why are Magical Secrets so nerfed?
So, I just hit level 6 with my college of lore seldarine drow bard and I can't overstate my disappointement. Why were magical secrets so gutted?

In dnd 5e, you can chose any spell from any class, the only limitation is that is has to be of a level that you can cast (so, on level 6 you are choosing from cantrips and levels 1-3 spells). Even Solasta implements magical secrets properly.

I love building collage of lore bards in 5e, taking Eldritch Blast on level 6. This gutted, cut down and curated list of spells is a HUGE disappointement. If any devs are lurking, I'd love to know the reasoning behind this choice.

PS. Love the game otherwise. And finding in the Underdark a longsword that seemed tailor made for my character choices was an awesome surprise :)
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Showing 1-9 of 9 comments
SoloQ Aug 8, 2023 @ 4:38pm 
2
I don't think you actually understand what a "huge disappointment" is...
If this is what you consider a "huge disappointment" you've lived a privileged life.
Pan Darius Cassandra (Banned) Aug 8, 2023 @ 4:39pm 
Did they really?

Larian continues to disappoint.
rasabt Aug 8, 2023 @ 4:39pm 
i get your annyoance
i had similiar problems with other classes
mostly playing clercs or druids and there some noticable differences to how i remember the system working in places
perhaps it's down to balancing reason or a simple oversight
who knows
might get patched further down the line; Larian is pretty good at supporting already released games, just look DoS 2's lifecycle.
Pinhead Larry Aug 8, 2023 @ 4:43pm 
Balance issue mostly. They changed a LOT of rules and stats from 5e, because 5e is kinda badly balanced. For example, the Divination wizard is completely gutted from it's tabletop counterpart too. Which is a good thing, because a halfling divination wizard with the luck feat can nearly literally ever fail any roll they ever make, ever.

Bards alone have long been known to be just straight up the best casters in the tabletop. Wizards are trash because they use INT and the tabletop barely has any use for INT outside a few skills that don't come up very often, and also rely on the clumsy prepared casting rules. Sorc's are starved for spell slots and spell variety despite being spontaneous casters and having access to metamagic. Bards get a good amount of spell slots, support spell-like abilities that refresh on short rests, and depending on what subclass you go can just do everything sorcs and wizards can but also get a lot of skill proficiencies and bonus spell like abilities.
Pan Darius Cassandra (Banned) Aug 8, 2023 @ 4:49pm 
It's stuff like this that makes me want to uninstall.
fabula_rasa Aug 8, 2023 @ 4:59pm 
Originally posted by Syzygy:
Balance issue mostly. They changed a LOT of rules and stats from 5e, because 5e is kinda badly balanced [...].

I bet you're right and it's indeed balancing. They did change a lot, a lot. I wouldn't go as far as to say that nothing works as expected, but I learned fast that I have to read every spell and ability and can't rely on 5e knowledge :lunar2019grinningpig:

I wonder if they did succeed in those balancing efforts. We shall see :)
mishona Aug 8, 2023 @ 5:03pm 
Originally posted by SoloQ:
I don't think you actually understand what a "huge disappointment" is...
If this is what you consider a "huge disappointment" you've lived a privileged life.
No. You're sitting here complaining about someone else's complaints on a video game on an online forum. You do not get to talk about "privilege".
Last edited by mishona; Aug 8, 2023 @ 5:03pm
fabula_rasa Aug 9, 2023 @ 7:25am 
Originally posted by SoloQ:
I don't think you actually understand what a "huge disappointment" is...
If this is what you consider a "huge disappointment" you've lived a privileged life.

I'm from Ukraine. I was hugely disappointed when I had to abandon my home and everything I've built over the years because of the war. I was hugely disappointed when the f**** blew up the dam and flooded everything. And yes, I was hugely disappointed when I discovered how gutted the magical secrets are in Baldurs Gate 3.

Becasue human beings are emotionally complicated. There are not enough words in any language to properly describe the shades of emotions we experience. And we can feel similar enough things about events that are world-shattering and those that don't really matter in the long run. At least I can. If some have an emotional range of a house plant, than I'm very sad for them.

And you really should not draw conclusions about people you don't know based on one random sentence on a game forum.
Last edited by fabula_rasa; Aug 9, 2023 @ 7:31am
JMD Aug 24, 2023 @ 1:41pm 
Originally posted by rasabt:
i get your annyoance
i had similiar problems with other classes
mostly playing clercs or druids and there some noticable differences to how i remember the system working in places
perhaps it's down to balancing reason or a simple oversight
who knows
might get patched further down the line; Larian is pretty good at supporting already released games, just look DoS 2's lifecycle.


My hope is that this is the case. I have personally opened a ticket about it with Larian to inform that that the omission of any druid, ranger, monk, warlock, paladin and cleric spells is a bug, or at best an oversight.

Allow me to strongman the case that limiting magical secrets is actually balance move: If I roll a level 6 lore bard and pick up Ranger's lightning arrow with magical secrets and then precast it before sneaking up to a fight and use my bonus action to attack an enemy I just had another player use their action to get wet it will hit very very hard IF I can actually hit and not miss, I can cast it 2x per day till I get to my next caster level so if I miss even once it's automatically worse than fireball or whatever but if it hits it's pretty cool, if it crits a wet enemy that is successfully Tasha's Hideous laughing or held or sleeping(max 24hp so who cares) then it will make a big number sure... if I then multi to assassin for 3 levels at level 9 the payoff gets a lot better and assassin gets advantage on that opening round, but I can maybe get 2 good crits off (with a modest 10m radius vs fireball which is much larger but I digress) if those are hard targets I may actually deliver more value than perhaps any other class at that point in that moment. By level 12 you could get 3 levels in gloom stalker as well and with clever item choices put down an absurd amount of opener+surprise round+first strike round1 damage with a certain cast order as many as 4 critical wet upcast to 4 lightning arrows, with a haste action you could cast something like a double damage ice storm (from wet) and even do a free fire spell such as an upcast level 3 scorching ray spell for 4 bolts all critical hits (or just good old fireball) by using both the pyro-quickness hat and the martial exertion gloves, and dual wielding the Spell power staff and the markoheskier staff, and sweetheart ring. All told that alpha strike could yield perhaps in the neighborhood of 1300+ damage single target, and potentially much more from aoe depending, especially if you first cast black hole on a large group from tadpole powers. Now at level 12 another good option might be assassin 3/swords bard9, same action economy during the surprise round but can cast level 5 spells, so a bit stronger on the surprise round and a bit better performing in a longer fight as well, but with a narrower choice of spells. Even a straight swords bard or swords bard/warrior is going to be able to use upcast lightning arrow to great effect if they can manage to hold person/monster and get automatic crits that way.

Counter point: The above builds are arguably only potentially just a touch stronger a touch earlier than an assassin 3/gloom-stalker 9 which can pull off a very similar opening alpha strike at level 12 with more attacks but slightly weaker lightning arrow spells (-1 spell slot level vs lore bard, - 2 levels vs swords bard), but is currently allowed to be in the game anyway, even though unlike the bard it has a pet and much better damage and sustain in a longer fight. However in bg3 I understand that a lot of the hard targets can't be ambushed with an assassin's critical surprise round as you get dropped into combat from a dialog or similar scripted event anyway so that puts a semi hard limit on how out of balance even an overturned munchkin can be in bg3 anyway. Besides as far as I have heard from those who have beat the game there are many many other munchkin builds (which don't rely on ambush tactics to perform well) that can pretty much tear through everything in the game in a round our 2 on the hardest difficulty as it stands anyway, the highest hit-point enemies in the game could be just as easily dismantled by them, why pick on bard?

No, I would guess that the bg3 limitation to magical secrets is probably a pragmatic cut for testing time, rather than a conscious balance choice of some kind. It's a lot of extra edge cases to test all those spells in a bunch of scenarios for one obscure thing that a bards don't get till level 10 except for a single subclass that can perhaps get it just a little bit too early. Hopefully Larian will hear us and go back and expand the spell list to at least include the entire 5e phb core spell lists to include cleric, warlock, druid, monk, and ranger in a future update, bonus points for adding in extra stuff like green flame blade etc from some of the major 5e expansion books. I would encourage anyone that cares about this to ask Larian directly to fix Magical Secrets, the squeaky wheel get the grease or so they say.
Last edited by JMD; Aug 24, 2023 @ 3:02pm
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Date Posted: Aug 8, 2023 @ 4:34pm
Posts: 9