Persuasion checks... why use charisma?

[Martin]

If you want to win any of the arguments later on in the game.. you need to pass this check which forces you to roll high charisma.. it's linear gameplay. Why can't it be based off other stats that also make you a leader.. like Strength or Dexterity? Being likeable isn't enough to lead. It certainly shouldn't enable persuasion. Hit someone with a hammer works just as well as words.

[Vash The Stampede]

In the paper version of D&D 5e there is an option. I believe its either a feat or a class feature, to use strength to intimidate rather than charisma.

[Amateur Nitpicker]

Ah sorry I was basing this on Primary attributes. but yes in certain situations "Charisma" can be applied . I just checked and strength can be used for some instances for "Persuasion" From the DMG on page 239, “Under certain circumstances, you can decide a character’s proficiency in a skill can be applied to a different ability check.”

Persuasion
Primary attribute: Charisma. As opposed to Intimidation, this is about presenting a point of view or making a case and how well one can argue an issue.

Strength – Perhaps one might be trying to calm the fears of a village under threat by a show of Strength (Persuasion) from their valiant defender.

Constitution – Another might do the same as the Strength user but by standing tough through a test of endurance with Constitution (Persuasion).

Intelligence – An appeal of logic and reason is an Intelligence (Persuasion) check.

[Sentient_Toaster]

That's not so much a class feature or feat, as the DM deciding when it's appropriate to use an alternative ability score for the check. The PHB gives two examples, one of which is doing a Strength (Intimidation) check.

5E charisma is force of personality (overlapping somewhat with wisdom, re: mental resilience theme) and leadership.

[TheLuckyAce]

Act1 my MC is the "face" of my group, Monk with 10 Charisma... I do not savescum and passed nearly every check for charisma so far... you can boost your chances to the moon with buffs and drings etc.

[Lord_WC]

Can't hear you over my +13 bonus to persuation.
And charisma - just like in real life - isn't about likeability. It's about making people do what you want them to do.

[✪ Wuhan Warrior 🍉🍉]

Originally posted by AncientsLegacy:

Oh man, all these people thinking intimidation is strength based instead of charisma are hilarious.

I know Tons of people on roids in my local gym that can bench more than 150 kg but can’t seem to articulate their views or ideas better than a learned 13 year old.

Yup I can see them being “persuasive”. Intimidating from a first impression sure, but that doesn’t help if they are slow up there.

[Dave]

Originally posted by Martin:

If you want to win any of the arguments later on in the game.. you need to pass this check which forces you to roll high charisma.. it's linear gameplay. Why can't it be based off other stats that also make you a leader.. like Strength or Dexterity? Being likeable isn't enough to lead. It certainly shouldn't enable persuasion. Hit someone with a hammer works just as well as words.

It's like this IRL. The more charasma, you have, the more you can persuade people... or you can intimidate them if you are a stronger looking person (strength stat)... just like IRL too.

Think of Charisma as wits and the ability to manipulate others... basically to wrap them around your finger. A natural born leader if the stat is high.

This is both a good AND a bad thing depending on how it's used - just like IRL.

Think politicians. The ones with the best charisma do better and get elected. The truth doesn't matter much. It's all about the charisma/persuasion.

[Lord_WC]

Originally posted by ✪ Wuhan Warrior 🍉🍉:

Originally posted by AncientsLegacy:

Oh man, all these people thinking intimidation is strength based instead of charisma are hilarious.

I know Tons of people on roids in my local gym that can bench more than 150 kg but can’t seem to articulate their views or ideas better than a learned 13 year old.

Yup I can see them being “persuasive”. Intimidating from a first impression sure, but that doesn’t help if they are slow up there.

You woudn't tell this to their face though.
And if they told you to jump you would jump.
Intimidation is about that. Persuation is about convincing you that jumping is in your interest.
And both are charisma based, someone can be extremely charismatic and dumb (people person vs geek).

[Araga]

If you are having trouble with persuasion you might try using the 'Non-Lethal" passive when you feel you can not convince them with Persuasion.

At least after you knock them out and demonstrate your power it might give you advantage or different dialog options?

[Martin]

Originally posted by weird32:

Um you are talking about INTIMIDATION, that's strength base. Persuasion is about moving your mouth hole while spewing ♥♥♥♥ to get them to like you. Hitting them with a hammer or scaring them with your bulging muscles is strength

Yeh but I'm not offered intimidation.. or any of the others, just the one which I will always fail.. seems abit stupid in design to me.

[Maligner]

As mentioned before, the only Stength based skill that gets checked is Athleticism. Intimidation, Deception, Persuasion and Performance are the Charisma based skills. Open the character sheet and the second tab on the top left will show your skills and more info.

[Martin]

My point is.. all the important game changing decisions are persuasion based.. unless you have 14-16+ chr.. you'll loose most of the rolls, purely because you chose a non chr class..

[Maligner]

Originally posted by Martin:

My point is.. all the important game changing decisions are persuasion based.. unless you have 14-16+ chr.. you'll loose most of the rolls, purely because you chose a non chr class..

Yes and no. There are some buffs or skills that might affect the roll, and true game changing rolls will let you reroll using Inspiration. The only problem being, if you don't have inspiration. To a completionist, or maybe an OCD type, losing any roll no matter how trivial seems really bad. I'd expect quite a few people to hate a random system in those cases.

[✪ Wuhan Warrior 🍉🍉]

Originally posted by Martin:

My point is.. all the important game changing decisions are persuasion based.. unless you have 14-16+ chr.. you'll loose most of the rolls, purely because you chose a non chr class..

Well thank heavens I went with a charisma based character. Though I would honestly think in a game like this, wouldn’t there be an item or some sort maybe late game where they set a wearer’s charisma to 14/16/18 or something?