Arcane Trickster - Any reason to choose it over the other subclasses?

[Altonu]

I'm only lvl 4, but, I've tried classing Asterion in Assassin and Trcikster so far, yet to try Thief, but probably will.

Looking ahead, Tricksters will only get access to lvl 2 spells, and while the lvl 9 spell ambush ability sounds neat, most of the good damage spells (Fireball, Lightning etc) are lvl 3+. I don't know what the lvl 2 spell list looks like (maybe there is there some really good self only buff?), but what is the value and use case of a Trickster vs the two alternatives?

If they had not nerfed mage hand to 1 use per rest (I'd like to beleive its a bug, but the timing of the change makes it look intentional), it would be a good feature, but even with that, I just don't see a compelling reason for Arcane Trickster other than RP.

Assassin has been tricky to pull off the special ability (can't seem to do it consistently), but when it works, it shines. Assassin also seems to have good multi-class synergy, but a pure assassin full sneak attack seems like it would be quite good.

I have not tried Thief yet, but the extra actions seem like they could be very good for versatility (can it be used for an extra move for better mobility?), and don't require effort to set up or need a rest to use.

[Aldain]

Messaggio originale di Quillithe:

There's some decent utility in getting feather fall, enhance leap, blur, invisibility, hold person, grease, mirror image, etc.

It's pretty bad if you have a wizard, sorcerer or bard, but if you're going very light on magic they can find use.

Although honestly you can also just grab some spells with a feat anyway, which could be an option if you only want one or two of these, especially the ritual spells.

Probably low tier if I had to rank the subclasses, but not useless

I'd argue it can complement Sorcerer at the very least, though Bard and Wizard eclipse it outright I agree with that.

Sorcerer's more limited spell selection tends to play nice with supplemental half/quarter casters imo, especially for things like Grease or other CC options.

[Quillithe]

Messaggio originale di Aldain:

Messaggio originale di Quillithe:

There's some decent utility in getting feather fall, enhance leap, blur, invisibility, hold person, grease, mirror image, etc.

It's pretty bad if you have a wizard, sorcerer or bard, but if you're going very light on magic they can find use.

Although honestly you can also just grab some spells with a feat anyway, which could be an option if you only want one or two of these, especially the ritual spells.

Probably low tier if I had to rank the subclasses, but not useless

I'd argue it can complement Sorcerer at the very least, though Bard and Wizard eclipse it outright I agree with that.

Sorcerer's more limited spell selection tends to play nice with supplemental half/quarter casters imo, especially for things like Grease or other CC options.

Yeah, fair point on sorcerer since they usually want spells for blasting and not leap, grease and feather fall.

Certainly if you aren't a caster and you don't take Gale, it's a reasonable amount of utility for Astarion.

[Aldain]

Messaggio originale di Quillithe:

Messaggio originale di Aldain:

I'd argue it can complement Sorcerer at the very least, though Bard and Wizard eclipse it outright I agree with that.

Sorcerer's more limited spell selection tends to play nice with supplemental half/quarter casters imo, especially for things like Grease or other CC options.

Yeah, fair point on sorcerer since they usually want spells for blasting and not leap, grease and feather fall.

Certainly if you aren't a caster and you don't take Gale, it's a reasonable amount of utility for Astarion.

Supplements Warlocks pretty well too, since they'll mostly just be Eldritch Blast spamming or tossing out a big auto-upcasted spell.

But yeah I'm just a sucker for spellblade classes so I might be a bit biased towards them.

[WeenerTuck813]

Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight both stink mechanically. Play them if you like the RP or game style, but a thief or Battlemaster is mechanically superior.

[Dave]

Messaggio originale di WuffWabbit:

absolutely not if you have ANY other caster in your group. Thief is hands down the best role otherwise, the extra actions will do more for you than any cantrip.

I totally disagree. I have them as an arcane trickster, and he does all of my crowd control stuff. I'm a thief, why would I need another pure thief?

[Quillithe]

Messaggio originale di Aldain:

Messaggio originale di Quillithe:

Yeah, fair point on sorcerer since they usually want spells for blasting and not leap, grease and feather fall.

Certainly if you aren't a caster and you don't take Gale, it's a reasonable amount of utility for Astarion.

Supplements Warlocks pretty well too, since they'll mostly just be Eldritch Blast spamming or tossing out a big auto-upcasted spell.

But yeah I'm just a sucker for spellblade classes so I might be a bit biased towards them.

Same, magic casting rogues are my favorite

[2LambBuna]

either of the mid-line bards probably does the same job better

[Aldain]

Messaggio originale di Quillithe:

Messaggio originale di Aldain:

Supplements Warlocks pretty well too, since they'll mostly just be Eldritch Blast spamming or tossing out a big auto-upcasted spell.

But yeah I'm just a sucker for spellblade classes so I might be a bit biased towards them.

Same, magic casting rogues are my favorite

Put an Eldritch Knight and an Arcane Trickster on the same team and you get a surprisingly self-sufficient duo too, they can stand shoulder to shoulder and enable sneak attacks for days while having defensive spells on making them both insanely hard to hit.

But sadly most people are more concerned with raw DPS than anything...

[Dre G Writer]

I use trickster on my rogue, because I like the utility spells.
I use the high jump spell(ritual spell), the increase movement spell(ritual spell that last until long rest without concentration), the feather drop spell, the mage hand spell, the mist teleport spell, the invisibility spell, and the see invisible spell at lvl8.

Those I found to be super helpful for me was my teams scout and stealth/snipe specialist.

She can get anywhere and hide from anything and snipe from stealth all day.

I tried assassin at first but didnt like that, felt really bore bones, but the getting your actions back on combat start after a out of comabt sneak attack is great tho.
Havent tried thief yet.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

yeah you absolutely aren't taking spells for damage on the trickster.

there's a bow early on which is great for trickster, it gives a level 1 spell slot back when you crit with it (1/long rest),

[TheBasque]

My thief wizard is quite good

[Kyutaru]

I love my Arcane Trickster. I don't need the janky offense of Assassin or the bonus actions I ever use of Thief. What I need is for my rogue to stay alive. So how do I keep Astarion alive?

Simple. I use Shield. I literally don't use his slots for much else, maybe use him for Feather Fall, Longstrider, and Enhanced Leap as a ritual buffer. But every actual spell slot he has goes toward Shield spells to negate attacks against him. This DRASTICALLY improves his survival. The longer my rogue lives, the more things he can sneak attack.

[rjenkins16]

Messaggio originale di Poop King:

At level 12 you get a whopping 4 level 1 slots and 3 level 2 slots. What the heck kind of utility os that?

Because they come with a character that gets 12 levels rogue progression, and all the utility that that entails?

[deviousity]

My MC Rogue went Arcane Trickster, with Shadowheart, Lae'zel, and Gale. Built for skirmishing with a hand crossbow +1, selected Friends, True Strike, Longstrider, and Tasha's Hideous Laughter spells. Gale already has 17 Int so he doesn't need the Warped Headband of Intellect. As a Half Wood Elf with Longstrider, which you refresh after a Long Rest and it's on until you rest again, my movement is permanently 14 meters, and I can Dash as a bonus action to make that 28. I'm trying to work in an effective sustainable way to get advantage on attacks, other than alternating rounds of marking a target with True Strike, then popping them with a Sneak Attack. With 17 Dex, 17 Int, 16 Wis and 15 Cha, Friends, an amulet that gives Guidance, Gloves that give +1 Sleight of Hand, and alternatively the Gloves of Missile Snaring for combat, this is my main interaction character, with huge bonuses to Insight, Persuasion and Deception, and the highest Perception roll in the party (and just picked up the Dungeon Delver feat), they do all the talking and take point when navigating the map.

Lae'zel and Gale have the Shield spell, which is the most broken defensive spell because you use your reaction when attacked to get +5 AC for the rest of the round, not to mention immunity to magic missiles. Gale also has the Bracers of Defense, and Shadowheart took Heavy Armor Proficiency, just picked up +1 Chainmail, and has a +1 shield that gives +1 to all saves. Lae'zel has the Everburn Blade from the demon on the ship, Gale has Magic Missile and Scorching Ray and Shadowheart can throw down Invoke Duplicity from Channel Divinity. So they're all rather tanky and can bust some skulls if they're not facing a large group of higher level opponents. Lae'zel also just picked up Gloves of the Growling Underdog so she has advantage on her attacks if there are two or more enemies threatening her. It has been working well so far.

In another game I just started with a Warlock, the Fiend, and looking at Pact of the Blade. I'll be taking Magic Apprentice to get Shield, and Bracers of Defense. Pact of the Blade's feature lets you use your casting Ability for attacking. Deepened Pact at level 5 gives an extra attack. It's the closest thing to being a Sith Lord, using the force to move their body and weapon, gaining bonus HP for killing enemies, and at level 12 adding Lifedrinker to add my Charisma modifier as Necrotic damage on melee attacks. Anyway, in that group I'll be taking Astarion and respeccing him to be a trap finding, lock picking, duelist, not having to deal with social interactions. Haven't decided on a sub-class for him yet.

[doublejesus]

Rogue thief with athlete is busted and can be used to solo entire encounters, athletes not needed but damn it has helped me get to some ridiculous places where the ai just stands there taking free sneak attacks.