Baldur's Gate 3

Baldur's Gate 3

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Kilo_60 Aug 7, 2023 @ 1:41pm
3
Why is this game so linear...?
Does a world map open up at some point for random exploration or to help lvl up your party before undertaking the main quests? Still slogging through the first map...

Coming for Pillars of Eternity 2 and Pathfinder WoTC I'm finding this game too DOS linear which turned me off completely...
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Showing 16-30 of 64 comments
ArcanisCz Aug 18, 2023 @ 12:04am 
Originally posted by McReesington:
Originally posted by Solem:
Baldurs Gate has always been linear with plenty of side content. The thing this game lacks compared to older games is wilderness and travel encounters. But there wasnt usualy a whole lot going on in the wildernes, just random enemies and occasionaly a quest. Mostly walking distance to tie areas together.
Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 have an open world map with cities, towns, etc, which you can go to in a non-linear order, for the most part, and actually 'live' in that world, similar to Skyrim, Fallout, etc.

Not entirely. For example Candlekeep is not available at all after you leave. Maps are generally accessible most of the game, but you dont have much incentive to return and main story is fairly linear too.

So what is missing here are some sidemaps, which is basically what is done in Act1 with all the side areas.
inosk0pedjfk Aug 18, 2023 @ 12:09am 
more linear than wotr? bait.
McReesington Aug 18, 2023 @ 12:17am 
Originally posted by ArcanisCz:
Originally posted by McReesington:
Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 have an open world map with cities, towns, etc, which you can go to in a non-linear order, for the most part, and actually 'live' in that world, similar to Skyrim, Fallout, etc.

Not entirely. For example Candlekeep is not available at all after you leave. Maps are generally accessible most of the game, but you dont have much incentive to return and main story is fairly linear too.

So what is missing here are some sidemaps, which is basically what is done in Act1 with all the side areas.
Candlekeep is the very rare exception and you do return, but for story reasons it's locked off - you're out on your own after living there and can't go back, so need to find a way to survive and move forward.

Something I love about games like Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Skyrim, Morrowind, etc, is that you do keep going back to those locations, the cities and towns, due to the quests, stories, vendors, etc, constantly giving you reason to. Beregost is much more the main hub of BG1 than Baldur's Gate itself is, and you'll be going back there quite a lot throughout the main game for a bunch of reasons. Same with Nashkal, though less so after you've done everything in the sound end of the map.

Then in BG2, you'll be going to and from Athkatla constantly, and the towns like Tradesmeet have quite a lot of reasons to come and go through the story. Only the Drow city is somewhere you won't likely revisit after that chapter, though you can return to the underdark and deal with all the other elements down there, like the merchants etc.
Power Aug 18, 2023 @ 12:18am 
Originally posted by Kilo_60:
Does a world map open up at some point for random exploration or to help lvl up your party before undertaking the main quests? Still slogging through the first map...

Coming for Pillars of Eternity 2 and Pathfinder WoTC I'm finding this game too DOS linear which turned me off completely...
It's just how they make games. Larian has a very specific type of design that they're good at. People really need to stop expecting them to make something different. This game was in EA for YEARS you all had plenty of time to see how it worked and understand that it's the same as Divinity original sin 1 and 2. Their engine isn't built to be a vast open world with a bunch of random NPCs. Everything is hand placed and carefully constructed.
Malaficus Shaikan Aug 18, 2023 @ 12:19am 
Because it is an rpg.
Rpgs are stories.
You get to make minnor changes but the overall story remains the same.
Which is why i always compaire rpgs to book.
There stories you read onces or twice.
Then move on.
Skipper Aug 18, 2023 @ 12:21am 
Sure, the game doesn't really need it. But I have to say that I'm also a big big fan of world maps. I just want to know where I am. Pathfinder did well. You really noticed how long you've been on the road. There were surprise events and attacks on the journey. It's all about the love and expectation of a journey, to discover something and the feeling of being "on the road". Would also like to see this in BG3.
Just showing the areas you see in game on a map and showing the time between areas as a little journey would be nice for sure. You don't have to put in a lot of effort and create a sophisticated travel system.
Last edited by Skipper; Aug 18, 2023 @ 12:31am
User Aug 18, 2023 @ 12:23am 
Originally posted by Kilo_60:
Does a world map open up at some point for random exploration or to help lvl up your party before undertaking the main quests? Still slogging through the first map...

Do Sidequest... I ended Act 1 with Lvl 8...
Ichthyic Aug 18, 2023 @ 12:33am 
"Linear"... I don't think that word means what you think it means.
ayrtep Aug 18, 2023 @ 12:47am 
Most RPG games are linear to a large extent. Typically they open up different areas to explore as you work though the game. So BG3 do it that way because that is the standard for such games.

There are some open world game like Skyrim that allow you to go (almost) anywhere at the start. Although even here quests plots still follow a linear path and there are some areas that are locked behind a quest objective.
McReesington Aug 18, 2023 @ 12:51am 
Originally posted by ayrtep:
Most RPG games are linear to a large extent. Typically they open up different areas to explore as you work though the game. So BG3 do it that way because that is the standard for such games.

There are some open world game like Skyrim that allow you to go (almost) anywhere at the start. Although even here quests plots still follow a linear path and there are some areas that are locked behind a quest objective.
The original Baldur's Gate games were open like Skyrim (the first one especially, the second cut down on the wilderness areas and just had you cover greater distances between more important areas like towns, groves, etc).

Their later Dragon Age games were open world too. Mass Effect was to an extent, though you rarely had reasons to revisit planets (some had vendors or quests kept going back there), and only the Citadel was really the core part of that world you kept coming back to. Knights of the Old Republic and Mass Effect were both open world in the sense that you could chose which planets to go to, which order to do things in, etc.
Last edited by McReesington; Aug 18, 2023 @ 12:51am
ayrtep Aug 18, 2023 @ 1:16am 
Mass Effect 3 was totaly linear. Although the other were more open, MEA particularly but still needed to progress the game to open up sets of planets - wish there was more story.

BG2 was a long time ago, can't remember the details but I am sure I remember different areas opened up as I progressed. You might be right about BG1.

DAO if I remember correctly that after the introduction the whole map opened up, but individual travel points opened up as you progress. Same with DAI where you have the whole map but travel points still appeared in a linear fashion locked behind war table operations and purchases using the power currency. I think maybe they were trying to hide the linear nature by filling up the one map rather than opening a sequence of different maps.

In all cases there is some choice in what order to do stuff in, even in ME3 you could alter the order you did the side operations in.

I think the key is having one linear main quest, and have the game open as you progress the the main quest. This is why Skyrim was so different, you could ignore the main quest and still have the the whole map available at the start with lots of stuff to do.
Last edited by ayrtep; Aug 18, 2023 @ 1:19am
Kilo_60 Aug 18, 2023 @ 1:34pm 
Originally posted by Power:
Originally posted by Kilo_60:
Does a world map open up at some point for random exploration or to help lvl up your party before undertaking the main quests? Still slogging through the first map...

Coming for Pillars of Eternity 2 and Pathfinder WoTC I'm finding this game too DOS linear which turned me off completely...
It's just how they make games. Larian has a very specific type of design that they're good at. People really need to stop expecting them to make something different. This game was in EA for YEARS you all had plenty of time to see how it worked and understand that it's the same as Divinity original sin 1 and 2. Their engine isn't built to be a vast open world with a bunch of random NPCs. Everything is hand placed and carefully constructed.

"People really need to stop expecting them to make something different."

Well, if they aren't capable of making anything different than Divinity, maybe they should have just made another DoS3, instead of selling this as a BG game...?
Mayhem Aug 25, 2023 @ 12:30pm 
I'm finding this game very linear. While the graphics and level design are very good, the graphics in particular, the game suffers from the fact that once you complete and area, that's it, no more enemies spawn and the area is effectively dead. It's definitely not what I'd call "open world". I found The Elder Scrolls Oblivion and even Daggerfall for be far more open world and RPG. BG3 is essentially one of those "choose your own adventure" books with interactive movies and group of enemies you have to kill to reach the area and next part of the story. It allows you to choose your own path in a very limited sense via character interactions but not really in the world itself. Compared to many other RGP games the number of side quests is extremely limited. There are no random combat encounters. If they'd have layed the game out more like Oblivion, where you can conquer certain areas but still have random encounters in the wilderness it would have been so much better. I'm also finding the games character interactions to be the same old same old as so many other past games, nothing really innovative at all, it's pretty much Mass Effect in isometric view. Honestly, this game lacks content, but the BG games always have. The game if fun, the graphics and voice acting are great, but still, I think this game is a bit over-hyped. That said, I'm still enjoying it.
Last edited by Mayhem; Aug 25, 2023 @ 12:37pm
Kamiyama Aug 25, 2023 @ 12:32pm 
Welcome to lie #1 of the straw-man advertising.

The "other developers" keep saying that BG3 is like GTA and we shouldn't expect huge open worlds like this.

Yes. Like this linear sequence of small maps. There is no world map, and no way to go anywhere else. But this open world is so huge it crushes the ambitions of lesser RPG developers and there is no way this level of open-ness could possibly become the industry standard.

F U larian
Estevan Valladares Aug 25, 2023 @ 12:43pm 
Little misleading, but it is linear, not as much as people are talking about.
Act I has some side stuff you can do to level up quite a bit even before facing the goblin scouts. The crypt can be said to be a side story on its own, as you are not required to go there. If you do, you can explore it and fight some stuff, explore some rooms with traps and enemies, and find some loot. You can also met withers there, and not have him to find you later on in the game.
You can go after the Harpers cache, and go to island find some breadcrum for some tiefling related sidequests. You can explore the blacksmith and get the breadcrumb for the sussur weapon. Not much of a mystery as it is there that you find the infernal iron for Karlach quest.
You also have an alchemy lab in the opposite side building. There is a hatch for it. You can find Edowin and be taken to a secret Shar altar close to the Owlbear, which is will provide some more content. You can explore the temple the Goblins invaded to find a little more loot and level a bit fighting goblins you dont need to.
You can also find the first "Ox" around, a prelude to spotting the fake Ox later on.
There is a map you can find in one of the carts, which will lead you to the lost shipment. After you fight a bit for it, where you find the lost shipment, you will find some more "content" to go through eventually.
Act 2 there is the Mason Guild which is not "main content". The toll office also isnt main content. While it kinda is main content you finding the Lire in the House of Healing, there are more things to be found there as well.
You can really change your odds in Act 3 by following the Raphael's Enemy in an alternative route. Should you do it, it will be infinitely easier to finish house of hope later on. You can also find a lot of loot in the Shar Temple, and some hidden mobs to fight.
Act 3 has so many hidden places and fights to be had outside what can be considered main quest that I have not really will to list them here. But only the graveyard has more alternative stuff to do than the whole act 2 has.

So while the story is linear, you can explore quite a lot before you go about ending the game.
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Date Posted: Aug 7, 2023 @ 1:41pm
Posts: 64