Low Stats = Lame Mental Image of Player Character

[Humpty Dance]

If Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 are the standard that Baldurs Gate 3 is trying to live up: Why would they alter the character stat distribution so much?
In the old game (and almost all D&D CRPGs) rerolling stats was a fun part of the game. It helped you visualize your heroes strengths and weaknesses. However, in the current game, it feels as if every character has some mediocre stats in their chosen profession, and barely functional oppositional stats.
I understand Larian's need for game balance, but if Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 are the definitive standard, why are they trying to change things as important as stat distribution. It completely ruins my mental image of my character. Instead of creating a strong, healthy, dexterous fighter, I have created some middle of the road player character that should have been a reroll. Now I have to go through the game a crappy mental image of my fantasy character.
These stat scores are what you would expect to see on prerolled PCs and NPCs that DMs keep around. These are not the kind of stats you want on your hero. Well, I'm off to go roleplay my weak fighter, that is kind of charismatic but dumb as all-get-out.

[Cuendillar]

This is a completely different system than the earlier Baldur's Gate games. Three whole editions later. A +1 is worth a lot more in 5e than it was 2e. Everything higher than a 10 *is* special. 10 is Average.
If you just want to always succeed with no problems at all you can just mod your stats to whatever crazy levels will fulfill your power fantasy. That is barely any different than rolling dice repeatedly until you get the perfect OP roll.
Ruins the game for yourself though.

[Humpty Dance]

I just don't understand the point of altering a system that had no problems. All Larian had to do was create another adventure in the Baldur's Gate: Baalspawn universe. No need to 'fix' or make improvements to games considered by many as the best CRPGs of all time. I totally get making a new IP and tailoring it to a specific vision, but messing with a time honored tradition of rolling for ability score in a D&D game is very weak.

Even in 2nd edition 9 was considered average. Nobody wants to play an average hero (hopefully).

[Arngrim]

Ah, the good old times when people kept rolling over and over again for ages until the "max" total came up.
I really think most people don´t really care for the rolling any more.

[Hobocop]

You mean the edition where most of your stats did virtually nothing for you unless they were 14 or higher?

Let's take Strength for example. In 2e, there is no appreciable benefit to your combat capabilities until you have 16 Strength with a paltry +1 to damage rolls. In 3e onward, you get +1 to-hit and damage with 12.

Dexterity is similar. Zero benefit until 15 or higher.

I could go on, but I can see why they moved away from that.

[L3wt]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

You mean the edition where most of your stats did virtually nothing for you unless they were 14 or higher?

Let's take Strength for example. In 2e, there is no appreciable benefit to your combat capabilities until you have 16 Strength with a paltry +1 to damage rolls. In 3e onward, you get +1 to-hit and damage with 12.

Dexterity is similar. Zero benefit until 15 or higher.

I could go on, but I can see why they moved away from that.

^^ This basically. It's much better without the bloat.

[Aersys]

BG3 is based on D&D 5e since it's the current edition. Those are the 5e rules for choosing the stats. If you don't like it, complain to WotC; however, most D&D players will disagree. The game is trying to live up to the tabletop experience, not the old games.

Also, you can have 17 in strength at the beginning of the game. Given that the max is 20, how is 17 mediocre? If you want to have ALL your stats above 15, well, you are missing the whole point of D&D. Strengths versus weaknesses are a great deal of it.

If you have a bad mental image of your character, it's probably not the game's fault. The ONE thing everyone is praising is how well it translated the tabletop rules, and those work really well.

[BlueScreenJunky]

> I just don't understand the point of altering a system that had no problems

I guess they couldn't just say "let's use the rule from DnD 2E like in Baldur's gate 2" because Wizards of the Coast had their say in how the game should play. They're selling DnD 5th edition so they want BG3 to showcase this game system.

Now rolling for stats is still (although optional) in DnD 5e, but really it was not a good mechanic for a video game. In tabletop your DM can decide the rules in advance (like "you take the best of X rolls", or each player rolls and they all chosse which result they want to use for all character), you don't get to "save" rolls and just reroll for hours and hours until you get 18 everywhere...

This is just not a fun mechanic, and people resorted to use programs that would automatically reroll until they got all 18s, or just edit the save files.

[Nefesh]

This is 5th edition D&D. Older games were 3.5. I hear you about mental image, but from a gameplay perspective this forces you to make choices and to consider trade-offs. That is always a good thing.

[Velesianus]

Originally posted by BlueScreenJunky:

> I just don't understand the point of altering a system that had no problems

I guess they couldn't just say "let's use the rule from DnD 2E like in Baldur's gate 2" because Wizards of the Coast had their say in how the game should play. They're selling DnD 5th edition so they want BG3 to showcase this game system.

As someone who started with 2e I don't think I'd agree that it "had no problems" lol.

Also, WoTC gets paid the same licensing fee regardless of edition and 5e is in no danger of being supplanted by 2e.

Again, it had huge issues and the majority of the playerbase simply isn't interested in going back to THAC0 combat .

I'm all for bashing WoTC but lets be reasonable in our critiques.

[Goob🍻]

if you want your main character to be great at everything youll need equipment
dump stat int and wear the headband of intellect (act 1)
dump stat dex and wear the bracers of dexterity (act 2)
dump stat con and wear the amulet of health (not 100% sure this is in the game, the other two are though so it probably is as well)
put all your points in the other three stats

[Graevon]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

You mean the edition where most of your stats did virtually nothing for you unless they were 14 or higher?

Let's take Strength for example. In 2e, there is no appreciable benefit to your combat capabilities until you have 16 Strength with a paltry +1 to damage rolls. In 3e onward, you get +1 to-hit and damage with 12.

Dexterity is similar. Zero benefit until 15 or higher.

I could go on, but I can see why they moved away from that.

So what your saying is that an average stat didn't make you into super man, yeah that was kind of the point. Good catch I would have never known that, oh wait I already did and still like 2e better.

[Black Hammer]

Originally posted by Nefesh:

This is 5th edition D&D. Older games were 3.5. I hear you about mental image, but from a gameplay perspective this forces you to make choices and to consider trade-offs. That is always a good thing.

BG 1 and 2 were more like a weird step between A&D and 3.0. It wasn't until Neverwinter Nights that we had a 3.5 game.

5e's probably my least favorite edition of D&D, but eh, it's merely bland, not bad.

[Xhal]

Originally posted by Humpty Dance:

If Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 are the standard that Baldurs Gate 3 is trying
In the old game (and almost all D&D CRPGs) rerolling stats was a fun part of the game.

Everyone did it, I did it, saying it was fun is just a plain lie, it was incredibly boring to reroll endlessly to get high stats.

Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves and to everyone else.

[Graevon]

Originally posted by Goob:

if you want your main character to be great at everything youll need equipment
dump stat int and wear the headband of intellect (act 1)
dump stat dex and wear the bracers of dexterity (act 2)
dump stat con and wear the amulet of health (not 100% sure this is in the game, the other two are though so it probably is as well)
put all your points in the other three stats

Think I can do it much easier pick up criminal or back ground with sleight of hand, roll a cleric, go solo and naked. They're you go your ready to solo the entire game with ease with most of the laughable boss encounters lasting one turn if they even get to start. Min/max not much point since the encounters hold no challenge.

[Graevon]

Originally posted by Xhal:

Originally posted by Humpty Dance:

If Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 are the standard that Baldurs Gate 3 is trying
In the old game (and almost all D&D CRPGs) rerolling stats was a fun part of the game.

Everyone did it, I did it, saying it was fun is just a plain lie, it was incredibly boring to reroll endlessly to get high stats.

Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves and to everyone else.

Or they simple just got the auto roller since they knew they were going to roll almost perfect stats anyways. I love how you think your opinion is fact and the only correct thing being said. However, we often played mutliplayer and would allow only so many rerolls if you messed over well it happened and you had to make the best of it and therein was the fun for us. Guess I am lying though because that couldn't have possibly been fun. Next your going to tell me what I can consider fun, oh wait you already did.