Question about Armor for Casters

[hoot hoot]

My view is colored by other games-- Are casters able to wear armor without penalties? I don't see any obvious (to me) indicators that there's a trade-off. What's to stop me from taking one level in Cleric or Fighter before just going Wizard and having a heavily armored wizard?

[Clovis Sangrail]

I believe if they have proficiency in an armor type, they can cast in it.

[Kyutaru]

Nothing stops you, but it's also unnecessary. Unarmored characters can sport as high AC as armored characters. Dexterity buffs AC while it doesn't do so for those wearing Heavy Armor, Mage Armor buffs AC for unarmored targets, and Bracers of Defense buff AC again for unarmored wearers. My Wizard has 17 AC all the time and his Dex is low.

[Blackdragon]

Nothing stops you from grabbing a level of fighter or cleric before going wizard and sorcerer and being able to cast in armor. 5e D&D is much more liberal in this sense than prior editions, where you had to jump through hoops to get arcane casting in full plate, for example.

[Holyvision]

Yes you would need proficiency so you could easily make it happen.

They are not min-max or anything but I enjoy running a Gold Dwarf Sorcerer or Shield Warlock Fiend and pretend they are forge-master artisans that enchant their works in the mountainhome.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by Kyutaru:

Nothing stops you, but it's also unnecessary. Unarmored characters can sport as high AC as armored characters. Dexterity buffs AC while it doesn't do so for those wearing Heavy Armor, Mage Armor buffs AC for unarmored targets, and Bracers of Defense buff AC again for unarmored wearers. My Wizard has 17 AC all the time and his Dex is low.

Having armor profs is helpful for the following reasons:

1. Allows you to completely dump DEX (if you can live with the loss of bonus initiative), freeing points for other stats. This is very helpful in MAD builds, but also helpful in general.

2. Allows you to get effects from armors, and take armor-related feats like Heavy Armor Master which gives physical damage reduction.

3. Shield proficiency allows you to use shields which offer a large AC bonus and also can carry special magical effects.

4. If you invest in STR instead of DEX, you will get more carrying capacity, and will have decent melee options in case if enemy gets in close.

5. Final (and most important!) part: Heavy armors, especially Full Plate, look awesome, much better than flimsy robes you'll be wearing as an unarmored caster.

Of course, going unarmored as a caster has its own benefits:

1. High DEX gives higher Initiative bonus.

2. High DEX also gives higher bonus to Stealth, which synergizes with 1 to make it easier to ambush enemies.

3. There are some decent robes and staves that give various magic-related bonuses.

For me personally, however. #5 trumps everything else. I just love playing armored casters.

[fulf]

all you need is proficiency

[.Master Jiren, The Strongest]

Originally posted by Kyutaru:

Nothing stops you, but it's also unnecessary. Unarmored characters can sport as high AC as armored characters. Dexterity buffs AC while it doesn't do so for those wearing Heavy Armor, Mage Armor buffs AC for unarmored targets, and Bracers of Defense buff AC again for unarmored wearers. My Wizard has 17 AC all the time and his Dex is low.

If your dex was low you'd have an AC of 12. (mage armor minus dexterity = 12 ) and then you'd have to be putting all your best +AC magic items to compensate. and you'd have to find those first, ive only found the cloak.

My sorcerer has an AC of 24.
theres no penalty for wearing armor, because you're giving up an entire level to do so, which means you'll always be a level behind in terms of power progression although you'll be able to upcast your lower level spells to the highest level spell slot even if you dont have any spells for those spell slots yet.

[Metadragon]

I mean its not really necessary. I have a sorcerer with draconic bloodline. I took 16 in dexterity at the beginning of the game so I have 16 AC as a naked spellcaster at level 1.

Thats the highest AC you will have on any party member until like middish game. And thats with no armor.

Besides multiclassing though, if you dont play sorcerer and you dont want to multiclass into non-spellcaster classes to maintain spell slots, you can take an armor feat, I think as early as level 4. I havent done it so I may be wrong.

Then as wizard you can be wearing heavy armor and cast just fine without sacrificing spell slots by dipping into fighter. Although fighter is interesting cause it does have action surge at level 2. And thats really the only way to put out more spells a turn outside of haste or sorcerer's metamagic.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by .Master Jiren, The Strongest:

theres no penalty for wearing armor, because you're giving up an entire level to do so, which means you'll always be a level behind in terms of power progression although you'll be able to upcast your lower level spells to the highest level spell slot even if you dont have any spells for those spell slots yet.

If you multiclass with a War or Tempest cleric, you will get heavy armor, shields, and martial weapon profs on top of cleric spellcasting, AND you will not lose spell slot progression. Clerics get awesome cantrips and 1st level spells, some of which can be upcasted to be even better, so overall you get more power than you lose. And if you only take 1 level in cleric, and the rest in wizard/sorcerer, then you will still get access to 6th level arcane spells and will have the spell slots of a 12th level wizard/sorcerer to cast them.

[Metadragon]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

5. Final (and most important!) part: Heavy armors, especially Full Plate, look awesome, much better than flimsy robes you'll be wearing as an unarmored caster.

On normal difficulty or lower this is completely a legit reason. And I support it.

You could just take a feat for it though.

[Metadragon]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Originally posted by .Master Jiren, The Strongest:

theres no penalty for wearing armor, because you're giving up an entire level to do so, which means you'll always be a level behind in terms of power progression although you'll be able to upcast your lower level spells to the highest level spell slot even if you dont have any spells for those spell slots yet.

If you multiclass with a War or Tempest cleric, you will get heavy armor, shields, and martial weapon profs on top of cleric spellcasting, AND you will not lose spell slot progression. Clerics get awesome cantrips and 1st level spells, some of which can be upcasted to be even better, so overall you get more power than you lose. And if you only take 1 level in cleric, and the rest in wizard/sorcerer, then you will still get access to 6th level arcane spells and will have the spell slots of a 12th level wizard/sorcerer to cast them.

Do clerics count as full spellcasters? or half spellcasters?

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by Metadragon: Destroyer of Hope:

I mean its not really necessary. I have a sorcerer with draconic bloodline. I took 16 in dexterity at the beginning of the game so I have 16 AC as a naked spellcaster at level 1.

Thats the highest AC you will have on any party member until like middish game. And thats with no armor.

Nope. You can get 17 AC armor in Act I, with regular shield that's 19 AC, with Shield of the Absolute that's 21 AC if I remember correctly. Having access to 1st level Cleric spells, you can also cast Shield of Faith for another +2 AC, for a total of 23 AC. And with 1st level wizard/sorcerer spells, you can cast Shield for yet another +5 AC in extreme situations, leaving you with a whopping 28 AC. In ACT I.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by Metadragon: Destroyer of Hope:

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

5. Final (and most important!) part: Heavy armors, especially Full Plate, look awesome, much better than flimsy robes you'll be wearing as an unarmored caster.

On normal difficulty or lower this is completely a legit reason. And I support it.

It's a legit reason on ANY difficulty.

Originally posted by Metadragon: Destroyer of Hope:

You could just take a feat for it though.

No, you can't get heavy armor prof with just one feat IIRC. You'll need light and medium profs first.

And even if you could, that would mean wasting a feat/ASI to get only one feature, when by taking a dip in Cleric you will get that and much more, at the cost of the same feat/ASI (since if you go 1/11, then you'll lose the 12th level ASI/feat).

[Metadragon]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Originally posted by Metadragon: Destroyer of Hope:

I mean its not really necessary. I have a sorcerer with draconic bloodline. I took 16 in dexterity at the beginning of the game so I have 16 AC as a naked spellcaster at level 1.

Thats the highest AC you will have on any party member until like middish game. And thats with no armor.

Nope. You can get 17 AC armor in Act I, with regular shield that's 19 AC, with Shield of the Absolute that's 21 AC if I remember correctly. Having access to 1st level Cleric spells, you can also cast Shield of Faith for another +2 AC, for a total of 23 AC. And with 1st level wizard/sorcerer spells, you can cast Shield for yet another +5 AC in extreme situations, leaving you with a whopping 28 AC. In ACT I.

Oh yeah forgot shields. Human sorcerer can use them too. if you take white draconic bloodline you get that spell.

But I mean with no spells or bonuses, just pure equip.

Doesnt hit percentage max out at 5% anyway? As in no matter what your AC, all attack can hit for 5% unless its disadvantaged?

idk Im still learning. I found out the sorcerer thing by accident.

[aqvamare]

Originally posted by Asneeze:

My view is colored by other games-- Are casters able to wear armor without penalties? I don't see any obvious (to me) indicators that there's a trade-off. What's to stop me from taking one level in Cleric or Fighter before just going Wizard and having a heavily armored wizard?

You gain around 2 to 4AC bonus, if you go clegic, and pick the +2 AC divine spell together with the Armor bonuns compare to a "mage armor + dex with shild" caster, up 3 to 5AC bonuns, when you invest into the +1AC feat and ignore ability score.

The strong point, you can focus constitution and "main spell attribut", and simply ignore dex this way.

But you loose, your level 12 caster level (and later your level 20 caster level) of your main caster school.

And the trade off is tricky, level 12 = feat, level 20 = your power feat in all classes, which more or less double your casting dextery.

But if you fear from character about your life, going higher AC isn't the wrong way.

But do not forget, there is even with 1000AC still the risk, that an enemy DICE roll is a natural 20 (5% chance per attack) which means crit, which means ignore all AC on next Attack on Hit rule.