Oaths and breaking them too easily

[Motherboards]

So, I understand that making the tags for what does and does not break a paladin oath is probably quite complex, however...
If I summon assistance to a fight, and that assistance just happens to kill an owlbear cub, which is out of my control, and the owlbear cub was already attacking the party, that breaking my oath is RIDICULOUS.
The things you have to do to break the oath NEED to apply specifically to the paladin character, not the party as a whole, or else things like this can happen, where summoned help for a fight simply protecting itself triggers a broken oath.

[Alex]

I don't know how you people managed to break your oaths, I've been poisoning goblins, executing goblin kids, luring people to dark corners and hammering them into the ground, but my oath is still as strong.
And by the way --- spoiler--- if you kill the momma owlbear the cub stops being hostile ----spoiler end----, something to keep in mind the next time.

[RamzaBehoulve]

The paladin is responsible to uphold the party to his standard. That's what a Paladin is. If he fails to do so, he breaks his Oath.

If you do not like it, Multiclass Fighter / Cleric for nearly the same abilities.

PS : Oath of Vengeance is very hard to break if don't let any evil go unjudged.

[Motherboards]

Originally posted by Alex:

--- spoiler--- if you kill the momma owlbear the cub stops being hostile ----spoiler end----, something to keep in mind the next time.

It will still be hostile if you start a fight in the goblin camp. Summoning the ogres to help in the fight, and them killing a HOSTILE creature breaks my oath, very dumb.

[Pedders]

Tieflings captured an NPC ally/party member our barbarian did all the talking, my little dwarven legs mean I get to encounters like this last. Barbarian picked the answer that persuaded the tieflings to let them go and flee. After they let them down the NPC decided to fight to tieflings so the barbarian had the choice to fight with the oarty NPC or the tieflings who had just trapped the ally, they chose to fight for the party member. My slow paladin dwarf arse is last in the free. So far behind I couldn't even listen into to conversation. Cutseen ends my paladin dwarf is between both tieflings roll low for the initiative bith tieflings are before me and bash the ♥♥♥♥ out of me down to 12/24 hp. One is dead before my turn i hit one and pushed it. Another NPC party member gets the kill. I have somehow broken my oath. Wouldn't mind so much if it was to drive the story but no quest to regain oath ir anything just pay 1000gp. Which I have nowhere near.

So yeah totally agree its too easy. No option in combat to try to talk it out. I'm pretty convident that if I had of fled from the fight the outcome would have been the same because that would have broken the courage of Tennent.
If they want your oath to be affected by other players' actions then you should have the ability to interject and disagree.

[AnonymousWizard]

I've yet to break my Oath of Devotion), despite stabbing an innocent in their sleep and killing two goblin children (admittedly in the defence of a bear. However I suspect I play a lot more like the stereotypical Paladin anyway, all 'I will slay the rampaging monster and I do no need your help to do it', having only left the CANNIBAL OGRES alive due to there being a far bigger problem at the moment (and I can mop them up on the way back to the grove_).

However I wouldn't be adverse to Larian bringing in the Oath of Glory which would sidestep the issue of falling even more than Vengeance does.

[Tingly]

You are responsible for what your summons and spells do, you brought those into play and should have been aware of the capacity for collateral damage. Especially when you summoned those dang ogres who SPECIFICALLY said 'we will attack everything'.

If I swore a binding magical oath, I would simply follow its tenets. Just make the choice to be morally correct.

Or pay the fine and keep all your powers anyway, I guess.

[jayman760]

What if you start as another class and then multi-class into Paladin? Do the same rules apply?

[Narky]

The only one that I noticed was easy to break, but also very easy to keep, was Oath of Vengeance. Simple as kill bad guys and don't make immoral choices (like sparing Auntie Ethel when you know for a fact that in D&D, there was only ever 1 good Hag in existence. Ethel is as evil as they come).

[id795078477]

.. because oaths mechanics are a joke to begin with. And implementing that in-game is a nightmare: it either makes the whole oath completely optional (aka "let's not break it on nothing" approach) or it makes it that the paladins are "let's attack them head on" cretins who aren't allowed to plan 1 step ahead and - you know, kill those cultists guards or something (current BG 3 approach).

paladins should've never be changed to any "oath" or what nonsense and should've stayed deity-bound as they are in 3e, but .. that's a long story.