You can't romance Shadowheart as an evil character?

[Blackdragon]

So it seems that following the so-called "evil route" in Act 1 (killing the tieflings) locks you out of Shadowheart's romance. Which is really stupid, both narratively (she supposedly worships an evil deity which craves destruction of all existence, but can't tolerate some killing for our own benefit?) and meta-narratively (as we were supposed to be able to influence companions and sway them).

The other heterosexual romance options are either hideously ugly (Laezel), or extremely "manly" (Karlach is built like a truck, and Minthara literally has a male face and a male voice). All of them are also extremely dominating and always want you to "submit", say you "belong to them" etc.

So it's either agree with modern liberal politics, like on migration issues (to which the "tiefling refugee crisis" is a direct allusion), or be locked out of romancing the only good-looking feminine companion and be left with ugly, masculine and emasculating "romantic interests".

Was this a conscious decision on Larian's part? Considering how much effort they have otherwise poured into companions, that does seem the most probable.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by Zef:

It's not that killing the tieflings locks you out of shadowhearts route.

It's because of the fact you've been an evil ♥♥♥♥ during your playthrough probably constantly and shadowhearts approval is down the gutter because of it.

If you really wanted you could farm positive response during ACT 1 and romance shadowheart and then backstab the tieflings and join minthara.

Wrong, it doesn't matter how much approval I have with Shadowheart, killing the tieflings hardlocks out of her romance regardless of your relationship with her. She will always drink herself into a stupor and you won't have the cliffside conversation that starts her romance route.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by Eckoh:

Originally posted by nobalkain:

Glad your not having any issues, but its clear OP is. This is about his experience, not yours. Why is it people always jump to the Defense by claiming THEY dont have an issue. Its great, have fun, but that does change how someone else experiences it now does it?

The OP is mad that the choices they made didn't give the outcome he wanted. That's the ENTIRE point of choices having consequences... the game is not the problem

Wrong, the game IS the problem because the consequences of my choices don't make any sense.

Shadowheart is a cleric of an evil deity, all she wants is get rid of the tadpole and get on with her mission, no matter the cost. That's EXACTLY what the Absolute route is all about: you want to deal with the tadpole issue as swiftly and efficiently as possible by going directly TO THE SOURCE - the being which is actually using and apparently controlling these tadpoles. So what if you kill some tieflings in the process of doing it? Shadowheart shouldn't care so long as it furthers our own interests - and it DOES.

Furthermore, as a cleric of Shar she should be absolutely abhorred by Harpers, and the "good route" has us dealing with Harpers to find out about the tadpoles.

Finally, she has Shar's mark that literally FORCES her to follow Shar's tenets and alignment.

So why does all of the above get disregarded in my character's relationship with Shadowheart? It does not make any sense and is contrary to her entire plot line. Yes, I get it that she has been brainwashed into Shar's service, but she is now for all intents and purposes an evil cleric with a mission from her goddess, and I am helping her do this mission, so why does killing some tieflings matter at all? To her it should be the same as killing goblins or spiders. Yet this decision locks me out of a very important part of Shadowheart's character development - her romance with the protagonist. Again, it doesn't make any sense.

The real reason, as I see it, is Larian wanting to punish players who did not align with liberal migration policies, by locking them out of the relationship with the only conventionally attractive female companion. And they have completely disregarded their own character's plotline to do it.

[Eckoh]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Originally posted by Eckoh:

The OP is mad that the choices they made didn't give the outcome he wanted. That's the ENTIRE point of choices having consequences... the game is not the problem

Wrong, the game IS the problem because the consequences of my choices don't make any sense.

Shadowheart is a cleric of an evil deity, all she wants is get rid of the tadpole and get on with her mission, no matter the cost. That's EXACTLY what the Absolute route is all about: you want to deal with the tadpole issue as swiftly and efficiently as possible by going directly TO THE SOURCE - the being which is actually using and apparently controlling these tadpoles. So what if you kill some tieflings in the process of doing it? Shadowheart shouldn't care so long as it furthers our own interests - and it DOES.

Furthermore, as a cleric of Shar she should be absolutely abhorred by Harpers, and the "good route" has us dealing with Harpers to find out about the tadpoles.

Finally, she has Shar's mark that literally FORCES her to follow Shar's tenets and alignment.

So why does all of the above get disregarded in my character's relationship with Shadowheart? It does not make any sense and is contrary to her entire plot line. Yes, I get it that she has been brainwashed into Shar's service, but she is now for all intents and purposes an evil cleric with a mission from her goddess, and I am helping her do this mission, so why does killing some tieflings matter at all? To her it should be the same as killing goblins or spiders. Yet this decision locks me out of a very important part of Shadowheart's character development - her romance with the protagonist. Again, it doesn't make any sense.

Shadowheart is not evil. That's the thing, you discover more about her as her story goes.

[.Master Jiren, The Strongest]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

So it seems that following the so-called "evil route" in Act 1 (killing the tieflings) locks you out of Shadowheart's romance. Which is really stupid, both narratively (she supposedly worships an evil deity which craves destruction of all existence, but can't tolerate some killing for our own benefit?) and meta-narratively (as we were supposed to be able to influence companions and sway them).

The other heterosexual romance options are either hideously ugly (Laezel), or extremely "manly" (Karlach is built like a truck, and Minthara literally has a male face and a male voice). All of them are also extremely dominating and always want you to "submit", say you "belong to them" etc.

So it's either agree with modern liberal politics, like on migration issues (to which the "tiefling refugee crisis" is a direct allusion), or be locked out of romancing the only good-looking feminine companion and be left with ugly, masculine and emasculating "romantic interests".

Was this a conscious decision on Larian's part? Considering how much effort they have otherwise poured into companions, that does seem the most probable.

yes this was intentional. thats just the way it is. dont worry you can also romance a spanish grandma or a bear, you have options!

[H3ntaiWarrior.]

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

Shadowheart is clearly not evil though. Not sure what you were expecting.

I'm pretty sure Larian even wrote that she was supposed to be "neutral" aligned and I also recall her having very random disapprovals during dialogue in EA. This seems to be fixed, but earning her trust seems to be harder than most companions.

Shes actually good! its a big plottwist

[HereIsPlenty]

Not that much of a plottwist, she approves of all your good actions. Charms the pants off her.

[[OTS]EchoZenLogos]

Shadowheart if left to her own devices and religion (AKA the "evil" part of her) isn't going to trust anyone easily, let alone want to sleep with random strangers when she has a mission.

So it makes sense that she wouldn't be open to romance unless you give her a reason to care about romance in the first place. If you're playing an evil character and start wiping out people left and right, she probably would assume you might do the same to her some day and would be more guarded as a result.

Plus going against the Druids or helping the Absolute is a very stupid idea if you want to be friendly with Shadowheart. She hates the Illithid and their tadpoles - not wanting to be manipulated by anyone but her own God.

The characters in this game (the main ones at least) have their own personalities, and even if they are overly horny that doesn't mean they'll just accept anyone who does anything.

Ultimately, Shadowheart is neither good or evil when you first meet her - she's a religious fanatic who obeys her religious teachings out of obligation because her religion saved her life and gave her a purpose in life, and has little outside of that. Yet she consistently approves of you helping others in many cases, and while she might say things like "hope is an illusion" in truth she holds out plenty of that kind of feeling. Shadowheart is someone who could either be left to be a religious fanatic of an evil God, or someone who could be shown a better way to live her life.

[Nani!?!?]

Originally posted by Nyaria:

Being Evil doesn't mean they like pointless mass murder for the sake of it.

I don't know why you think siding against the druids was ever going to turn out good results for you.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

The amount of people who confuse being evil with being stupid, violent, and deranged.

[Lashane The Simp of Mimi]

i dont look too deep into ♥♥♥♥ like a lot of you do but i see it now that its spelled out.

heres the thing tho
♥♥♥♥ all of them my protagonist not getting any ♥♥♥♥ it is then

[Nani!?!?]

Originally posted by morrganstain:

She likes children, you didnt bother to find that out and then killed children. Makes perfect sense to me. *shrug*

I don't think any of the companions like murdering children, except Lae'zel. Maybe.

[Snake Bit]

Originally posted by Eckoh:

Originally posted by nobalkain:

Glad your not having any issues, but its clear OP is. This is about his experience, not yours. Why is it people always jump to the Defense by claiming THEY dont have an issue. Its great, have fun, but that does change how someone else experiences it now does it?

The OP is mad that the choices they made didn't give the outcome he wanted. That's the ENTIRE point of choices having consequences... the game is not the problem

"Why would an evil character have a problem with me making an evil choice?"

[Lashane The Simp of Mimi]

Originally posted by OTSEchoZenLogos:

Shadowheart if left to her own devices and religion (AKA the "evil" part of her) isn't going to trust anyone easily, let alone want to sleep with random strangers when she has a mission.

So it makes sense that she wouldn't be open to romance unless you give her a reason to care about romance in the first place. If you're playing an evil character and start wiping out people left and right, she probably would assume you might do the same to her some day and would be more guarded as a result.

Plus going against the Druids or helping the Absolute is a very stupid idea if you want to be friendly with Shadowheart. She hates the Illithid and their tadpoles - not wanting to be manipulated by anyone but her own God.

The characters in this game (the main ones at least) have their own personalities, and even if they are overly horny that doesn't mean they'll just accept anyone who does anything.

Ultimately, Shadowheart is neither good or evil when you first meet her - she's a religious fanatic who obeys her religious teachings out of obligation because her religion saved her life and gave her a purpose in life, and has little outside of that. Yet she consistently approves of you helping others in many cases, and while she might say things like "hope is an illusion" in truth she holds out plenty of that kind of feeling. Shadowheart is someone who could either be left to be a religious fanatic of an evil God, or someone who could be shown a better way to live her life.

so all religion irl then?

[Tolfdir]

Or you play as a hot female tiefling and romance "that" evil guy in tour group.

[⇧⇨⇩⇩⇩]

Originally posted by Nani!?!?:

Originally posted by morrganstain:

She likes children, you didnt bother to find that out and then killed children. Makes perfect sense to me. *shrug*

I don't think any of the companions like murdering children, except Lae'zel. Maybe.

They do when I control them. :3

[L3wt]

Originally posted by FMC:

YOU MEAN TO SAY THAT AFTER 170 HOURS,I'VE BEEN SIMPING FOR NOTHING?!!!

Literally my words after Keira hops on Lambert's meat sword near the end of the game while my Geralt ignored all other ass and treated her like a goddess. Felt like I was drawn and quartered..