So...about meeting Gale...

[SlimJim]

I may or may not have failed the skill check to pull Gale out of the waypoint. I continued on with the assumption he would show up later, but nearing the end of the Goblin Camp I am losing hope.
Is he just dead because RNG decided that I was to roll a 2, followed by 1 with Inspiration? Or does he indeed show up later, slightly worse for wear?

[Eckoh]

No idea... I save before most encounters just incase I fail...

[KingOfFriedChicken]

I... you don't wanna know what I did... (flashbacks) O.O I'll never be the same...

[SlimJim]

Alright, so, after doing a bit of research: he does not come back.
Cool. Good to know that because the RNG decided to completely ♥♥♥♥ me over, and I was under the assumption that I would have another chance to get him (which just about every other RPG gives that option), I would have to load back 7+ hours of saves to get him.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by KingOfFriedChicken:

I... you don't wanna know what I did... (flashbacks) O.O I'll never be the same...

Need a "hand" explaining it?

[SomethingCoolBro]

This meeting of new party members is the worst design I've ever seen. It's completely dependant on having prior knowledge of the game.

The game literally tells you "this portal looks dangerous", so why on earth, in a game where decisions are supposed to matter, would you be rewarded for interacting with it? Is this the quality of decision we're supposed to make, to simply ignore clues the games give you?

And as for the orc Lady, are you really supposed to ignore her ultimatum: "Assist me or I'll kill you?"

Really, are we supposed to go along with that? Yes, because you're supposed to have prior knowledge.

This is a good game, but this introduction is the worst design I've ever seen, and it's not even a subjective measurement: there's no excuse for this quality of design, it's the worst new player experience I've ever seen.

I don't even mind dying to RNG, but let's not pretend this is a thinking-person's game, it's not.

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Originally posted by Aldain:

Originally posted by KingOfFriedChicken:

I... you don't wanna know what I did... (flashbacks) O.O I'll never be the same...

Need a "hand" explaining it?

Crys in flashbacks!

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Originally posted by SomethingCoolBro:

This meeting of new party members is the worst design I've ever seen. It's completely dependant on having prior knowledge of the game.

The game literally tells you "this portal looks dangerous", so why on earth, in a game where decisions are supposed to matter, would you be rewarded for interacting with it? Is this the quality of decision we're supposed to make, to simply ignore clues the games give you?

And as for the orc Lady, are you really supposed to ignore her ultimatum: "Assist me or I'll kill you?"

Really, are we supposed to go along with that? Yes, because you're supposed to have prior knowledge.

This is a good game, but this introduction is the worst design I've ever seen, and it's not even a subjective measurement: there's no excuse for this quality of design, it's the worst new player experience I've ever seen.

I don't even mind dying to RNG, but let's not pretend this is a thinking-person's game, it's not.

I mean realistically a portal who's energy is wack and doesn't normally do that would look dangerous to any passerby, but because as you said it's a game of choices, so you can in fact ignore it looks dangerous and investigate, especially if your background was something like the scholar you might wanna look into the magical occurrence.

[Rabbit]

Originally posted by SomethingCoolBro:

This meeting of new party members is the worst design I've ever seen. It's completely dependant on having prior knowledge of the game.

The game literally tells you "this portal looks dangerous", so why on earth, in a game where decisions are supposed to matter, would you be rewarded for interacting with it? Is this the quality of decision we're supposed to make, to simply ignore clues the games give you?

I don't even mind dying to RNG, but let's not pretend this is a thinking-person's game, it's not.

Media literacy is dead. Thankfully the writers didn't dumb everything down to MCU levels for you.

[SomethingCoolBro]

Originally posted by Boon: Safeword:

Originally posted by SomethingCoolBro:

This meeting of new party members is the worst design I've ever seen. It's completely dependant on having prior knowledge of the game.

The game literally tells you "this portal looks dangerous", so why on earth, in a game where decisions are supposed to matter, would you be rewarded for interacting with it? Is this the quality of decision we're supposed to make, to simply ignore clues the games give you?

I don't even mind dying to RNG, but let's not pretend this is a thinking-person's game, it's not.

Media literacy is dead. Thankfully the writers didn't dumb everything down to MCU levels for you.

You've got this backwards, the game rewards players who don't read anything, don't think about anything, or have watched someone else's playthough.

It already caters to the MCU crowd, and you're firmly part of it.

[Rabbit]

No, I knew which situations were potential party members on my first playthrough without foreknowledge by, you know, paying attention.

[WillowMist]

Originally posted by SomethingCoolBro:

This meeting of new party members is the worst design I've ever seen. It's completely dependant on having prior knowledge of the game.

The game literally tells you "this portal looks dangerous", so why on earth, in a game where decisions are supposed to matter, would you be rewarded for interacting with it? Is this the quality of decision we're supposed to make, to simply ignore clues the games give you?

And as for the orc Lady, are you really supposed to ignore her ultimatum: "Assist me or I'll kill you?"

Really, are we supposed to go along with that? Yes, because you're supposed to have prior knowledge.

This is a good game, but this introduction is the worst design I've ever seen, and it's not even a subjective measurement: there's no excuse for this quality of design, it's the worst new player experience I've ever seen.

I don't even mind dying to RNG, but let's not pretend this is a thinking-person's game, it's not.

The game has so much content that it's designed with the principle that not every player will see all the content. The 80-100 hour gameplay estimate is after adjusting for the content a player might not see on 1 playthrough. Including companions dying or not being recruited.

This isn't just conjecture, Swen (the project lead) stated this was a main design principle of the game multiple times in behind the scenes features and interviews.

Also, this isn't really a new concept for the crpg genre.

The original plan for bg3 was to lock your party to only having 3 companions total at all, so you had to pick. That was only removed due to player backlash during early access.

[SomethingCoolBro]

Originally posted by Boon: Safeword:

No, I knew which situations were potential party members on my first playthrough without foreknowledge by, you know, paying attention.

Explain how you're supposed to know the portal is a party member, and what information do you use to overcome the "this looks dangerous" narration, in a game where decisions are supposed to be informed and matter?

I'm genuinely curious, you have an opportunity to make me look silly here, let's have it.

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Originally posted by SomethingCoolBro:

Originally posted by Boon: Safeword:

Media literacy is dead. Thankfully the writers didn't dumb everything down to MCU levels for you.

You've got this backwards, the game rewards players who don't read anything, don't think about anything, or have watched someone else's playthough.

It already caters to the MCU crowd, and you're firmly part of it.

There were some previous issues with gale just jumping out of the portal anyway, a lot of people complained he popped out to aggressively and would literally attack him, there is more then 1 reason he is just a hand sticking out now but it's a less aggressive and more friendly way to introduce him, this issue was also had with astarion but considering who he is the intro fit so they left it, now you don't have 2 aggressive intros to strangers lol

[Colonel Torchere]

Originally posted by SomethingCoolBro:

This meeting of new party members is the worst design I've ever seen. It's completely dependant on having prior knowledge of the game.

Haven't played the game before release or watched gameplay and honestly i just love this type of experience where you can miss entire questline or new party member just by running past and not looking hard enough. You guys really need to do something with your completionist goopy goblin gamer brain reflexes, you don't need to see all in-game content (there's tons of it anyway), it makes the adventure more personal and fun to discuss with other

[SomethingCoolBro]

Originally posted by WillowMist:

Originally posted by SomethingCoolBro:

This meeting of new party members is the worst design I've ever seen. It's completely dependant on having prior knowledge of the game.

The game literally tells you "this portal looks dangerous", so why on earth, in a game where decisions are supposed to matter, would you be rewarded for interacting with it? Is this the quality of decision we're supposed to make, to simply ignore clues the games give you?

And as for the orc Lady, are you really supposed to ignore her ultimatum: "Assist me or I'll kill you?"

Really, are we supposed to go along with that? Yes, because you're supposed to have prior knowledge.

This is a good game, but this introduction is the worst design I've ever seen, and it's not even a subjective measurement: there's no excuse for this quality of design, it's the worst new player experience I've ever seen.

I don't even mind dying to RNG, but let's not pretend this is a thinking-person's game, it's not.

The game has so much content that it's designed with the principle that not every player will see all the content. The 80-100 hour gameplay estimate is after adjusting for the content a player might not see on 1 playthrough. Including companions dying or not being recruited.

This isn't just conjecture, Swen (the project lead) stated this was a main design principle of the game multiple times in behind the scenes features and interviews.

Also, this isn't really a new concept for the crpg genre.

The original plan for bg3 was to lock your party to only having 3 companions total at all, so you had to pick. That was only removed due to player backlash during early access.

I absolutely understand the "not every player will see all the content" design philosophy, as simple as that is - it's not exactly new is it? But it's terrible game design when the earliest fights are balanced for at least 3 party members, which is why some people think the game is easy, where others think it's extremely hard and are second-guessing their class and talent choices.

Where in reality, none of those class choices really mattered, they just didn't click something that the game warned them not to, and were punished for it. If they had simply missed a storyline, that would have been fine, but this is the introduction to the game, before you even have a full-strength party up.