Level 4 Gnolls getting 3 attacks per turn while my entire team only gets 1 at level 4?

[Nyaria]

Why the ♥♥♥♥ are these random ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gnolls running around with triple attacks while moving while all my characters are stuck with one attack at level 4?

Why are all the monsters running around with magic ammo all the time, and seem to never run out of it?

this is absolutely absurd, there is NO class that gives three attacks at level 4, yet the gnolls can casually pump out three bow attacks and move all in the same turn without any negatives to their ability to hit things?

Why in the world are all the monsters in this game given literally everything yet characters are given literally nothing interesting?

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by Recjawjind:

Originally posted by Nyaria:

And I've played D&D before. there is no level 4 gnoll that gets "multiattack" that lets them shoot 3 times in a single turn.

In actual D&D, the vast majority of creatures aren't given a "level" though. They use CR instead. And gnoll pack lords can make 2 attacks, as CR2 creatures. Meaning, it's entirely reasonable that a boss that is "level 4" gets to make 3.

The Gnoll Hunters aren't Bosses and the average damage of a Multi-Attack hitting all shots is 16.5 for Short and 19.5 for longbows assuming their fix damage is 2 (3d6/8 + 6)

There are Gnoll Hunter Statblocks, and most of them list them with a Multiattack using 2 Attacks. (average Damage 13 if both attacks hit)
CR in 5e kinda stupid.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by Recjawjind:

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

It's the setup of the encounter that sucks.
There is no level of thinking that can achieve both goals, keeping them alive and beating the gnolls, consistently, unless you do the encounter at higher levels.

So stuff it up yours buddy.

Just did it at level 3, tactician, no tadpole use whatsoever. Both lived and weren't even touched once.
It's not an easy fight, but it's not nearly as difficult as people make it out to be.

Then your game works differently from mine.

Or you're powergaming. Or there is something massive I am missing.

Did it at level 4 balanced, all hunters rolled like double my initiative, Acid Arrowed random backline people and most of the time Olly was dead Round 2, or he walked up to Flind trying to shove him into fire before being crushed into fine powder by being dealt 20+ Damage in one hit.

[Recjawjind]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

The Gnoll Hunters aren't Bosses and the average damage of a Multi-Attack hitting all shots is 16.5 for Short and 19.5 for longbows assuming their fix damage is 2 (3d6/8 + 6)

There are Gnoll Hunter Statblocks, and most of them list them with a Multiattack using 2 Attacks. (average Damage 13 if both attacks hit)
CR in 5e kinda stupid.

Oh I thought we were talking about Flind, who would be a very juiced up pack lord.
Probably a fancy, taldpole enhanced form of incite rampage?

[NaRf]

Originally posted by Nyaria:

Why the ♥♥♥♥ are these random ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gnolls running around with triple attacks while moving while all my characters are stuck with one attack at level 4?

Why are all the monsters running around with magic ammo all the time, and seem to never run out of it?

this is absolutely absurd, there is NO class that gives three attacks at level 4, yet the gnolls can casually pump out three bow attacks and move all in the same turn without any negatives to their ability to hit things?

Why in the world are all the monsters in this game given literally everything yet characters are given literally nothing interesting?

Skill issue, L2P....

[Recjawjind]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Then your game works differently from mine.

Or you're powergaming. Or there is something massive I am missing.

Did it at level 4 balanced, all hunters rolled like double my initiative, Acid Arrowed random backline people and most of the time Olly was dead Round 2, or he walked up to Flind trying to shove him into fire before being crushed into fine powder by being dealt 20+ Damage in one hit.

Playing a sorc, blasted flind and a hunter with a twinned upcast chromatic orb, held person flind with gale, smacked her up with karlach, respecced shadowheart radiance of the dawn the entire encounter + spiritual weapon smacking into the held person-d flind, and she was pretty much done for already. A few more first level spells from gale and my sorc and she was down. The rest of the encounter was already hurt a lot by radiance of the dawn.

Then it was just about managing aggro, keeping my backline far enough away so they'd actually go for shadowheart and karlach, who could survive pretty well, and picking off the already hurt hunters, then the others.

[Angelis Mortis]

Originally posted by cloviz-68:

its like people have never played dnd before....smdh

Crazy because I'm looking at the Monster Manual right now and can't seem to find more than 1 attack for Gnolls. IF they reduce an opponent to 0hp they can get one bonus bite attack that turn, but that gnoll only so not sure if you've ever played DnD.

[RhodosGuard]

Apparently they get that Multiattack from using "Seething Fury" which they use the first turn anyway, so again, unless you roll higher than them, no way to avoid it.
Their attacks are also, according to a wiki
+5 to hit, 1d8+3
so a full Multiattack hitting is 3d8 + 9 (22.5 average)
I always approach the fight from within the cave. maybe that's my problem?

[Recjawjind]

Originally posted by Angelis Mortis:

Crazy because I'm looking at the Monster Manual right now and can't seem to find more than 1 attack for Gnolls. IF they reduce an opponent to 0hp they can get one bonus bite attack that turn, but that gnoll only so not sure if you've ever played DnD.

Gnoll hunters and packlords (flind is absolutely a juiced up packlord) have multiattack.

[Angelis Mortis]

Originally posted by Recjawjind:

Originally posted by Angelis Mortis:

Crazy because I'm looking at the Monster Manual right now and can't seem to find more than 1 attack for Gnolls. IF they reduce an opponent to 0hp they can get one bonus bite attack that turn, but that gnoll only so not sure if you've ever played DnD.

Gnoll hunters and packlords (flind is absolutely a juiced up packlord) have multiattack.

Right, but the basic Gnolls do not. Where do you find Gnoll hunter? I see Gnoll, packlords (which have 2) and Gnoll Fang of Yeenoughu which have 3. Also, his point about every peon in the game having magic arrows is valid. That is absurd.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by Recjawjind:

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Then your game works differently from mine.

Or you're powergaming. Or there is something massive I am missing.

Did it at level 4 balanced, all hunters rolled like double my initiative, Acid Arrowed random backline people and most of the time Olly was dead Round 2, or he walked up to Flind trying to shove him into fire before being crushed into fine powder by being dealt 20+ Damage in one hit.

Playing a sorc, blasted flind and a hunter with a twinned upcast chromatic orb, held person flind with gale, smacked her up with karlach, respecced shadowheart radiance of the dawn the entire encounter + spiritual weapon smacking into the held person-d flind, and she was pretty much done for already. A few more first level spells from gale and my sorc and she was down. The rest of the encounter was already hurt a lot by radiance of the dawn.

Then it was just about managing aggro, keeping my backline far enough away so they'd actually go for shadowheart and karlach, who could survive pretty well, and picking off the already hurt hunters, then the others.

How do you respecc Shadowheart?

Most of the time I cant even move my frontline to the Gnolls in the first round, because the encounter starts rather fast after exiting dialogue with Rugan, so I have little time to just tell my party to move ahead, and even if I manage that, Rugen and Olly just Firebombed the entrance.

I dunno. Encounter just feels weird.
I always felt like it could have been tuned better.
I mean, Hold Person has a 35% chance, 40% at level 4 with ASI.

My Gale is Divination so I use his low rolls to try and protect olly, but you cant protect stupid when he just desperately wants to run in and hug the Gnoll with the big flail.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by Angelis Mortis:

Originally posted by Recjawjind:

Gnoll hunters and packlords (flind is absolutely a juiced up packlord) have multiattack.

Right, but the basic Gnolls do not. Where do you find Gnoll hunter? I see Gnoll, packlords (which have 2) and Gnoll Fang of Yeenoughu which have 3. Also, his point about every peon in the game having magic arrows is valid. That is absurd.

I dunno if it's an earlier edition thing, but when I google "Gnoll Hunter 5e" I get quite a few stat blocks that all look the same, so I assumed they have to come from a shared source, but I couldnt verify which source that is.

[Recjawjind]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

How do you respecc Shadowheart?

Most of the time I cant even move my frontline to the Gnolls in the first round, because the encounter starts rather fast after exiting dialogue with Rugan, so I have little time to just tell my party to move ahead, and even if I manage that, Rugen and Olly just Firebombed the entrance.

I dunno. Encounter just feels weird.
I always felt like it could have been tuned better.
I mean, Hold Person has a 35% chance, 40% at level 4 with ASI.

My Gale is Divination so I use his low rolls to try and protect olly, but you cant protect stupid when he just desperately wants to run in and hug the Gnoll with the big flail.

You can respec her with the skellybro in your camp (whom you find in that first crypt area to the north-east of where the nautiloid crashlanded)
Light domain is just infinitely better than trickery.
Radiance of the dawn has (very nearly) wiped out the entire windmill encounter in the blighted village for me, in one single use. It's just so good.

[Recjawjind]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Originally posted by Angelis Mortis:

Right, but the basic Gnolls do not. Where do you find Gnoll hunter? I see Gnoll, packlords (which have 2) and Gnoll Fang of Yeenoughu which have 3. Also, his point about every peon in the game having magic arrows is valid. That is absurd.

I dunno if it's an earlier edition thing, but when I google "Gnoll Hunter 5e" I get quite a few stat blocks that all look the same, so I assumed they have to come from a shared source, but I couldnt verify which source that is.

MPMM page 144
VGM page 154

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by Recjawjind:

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

How do you respecc Shadowheart?

Most of the time I cant even move my frontline to the Gnolls in the first round, because the encounter starts rather fast after exiting dialogue with Rugan, so I have little time to just tell my party to move ahead, and even if I manage that, Rugen and Olly just Firebombed the entrance.

I dunno. Encounter just feels weird.
I always felt like it could have been tuned better.
I mean, Hold Person has a 35% chance, 40% at level 4 with ASI.

My Gale is Divination so I use his low rolls to try and protect olly, but you cant protect stupid when he just desperately wants to run in and hug the Gnoll with the big flail.

You can respec her with the skellybro in your camp (whom you find in that first crypt area to the north-east of where the nautiloid crashlanded)
Light domain is just infinitely better than trickery.
Radiance of the dawn has (very nearly) wiped out the entire windmill encounter in the blighted village for me, in one single use. It's just so good.

Sounds like power gaming/cheesing to me.
Don't like to just "Respecc" Companions. I dont want this to be easier simply by knowing which subclasses smack ass, I want this to be an storytelling experience, and that doesnt "vibe" with the way I wanna play the game.

Radiance of the Dawn is 2d10+3 at level 3 with an average of 14 Damage, you can use it once, and enemies who save only take half.

I think this might be carried by it's range, because you can hit the whole encounter. That would explain why the hunters are no problem with light.

I thinkt he closest I could have gotten with my setup was to put shatter on Gale or something.

[Varanus]

3 attacks that can do 9 damage a piece. It was pretty scary when they all would hit. Alot of using the help action going on. XD