They F*** up the races. Now every race is the same, +2 and +1....OMG Larian...

[yaguero]

Lame, now it is all about stetics....months waiting to screw up last minute and in secrecy so no one could say anything before release. Shame on you Larian

[Grand Architect]

Originally posted by NixAhmose:

Originally posted by Grand Architect:

What I'll only say is, it does not fix the min/mix problem, as you are just doing it for different reasons now. Like not wanting doubled up features like a skill or Armor prof. you'll be getting from your class or background anyways.

Honestly the only race that suffers from the whole “not wanting to double down of proficiencies” is humans since now their 90% of their unique features are proficiencies and the one that isn’t grants them +20 carry weight.

Well all I can say is with this changes I tend to build a character selecting Class, Background, and then Race in that order to avoid doubling up Features, so I having the same min/mix habits just for different reasons.

[Uzkin]

Originally posted by Replicant Six:

Originally posted by Uzkin:

I'm just gonna wait until they restore the early-access racial stats, before I buy the game. (Or when they implement it as a choice.)

Gnomes being as strong as half-orcs is simply too ridiculous and immersion-breaking for me.

DnD has never had any restrictions on the strength of a race on its size, you're playing the wrong game to have issues with that.

What do you mean I'm playing the wrong game?

I am:
* playing BG1, BG2, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Pathfinder: WOTR, etc.
* not playing (and not buying) BG3.

As someone who thinks that gnomes being as strong as half-orcs is immersion breaking, disrupts roleplaying, and is boring due to homogenization... I'd say I'm playing exactly the right games. :)

[surreptitious]

It Doesnt add anything.
It removes flavor and world building.
One step closer to Vanilla ... Races don't matter alignments don't matter
Welcome to Vanilla world where nothing matters.
You name is Bob , that is Bob over there ... he is a great guy , this is his wife also Bob and she is great too, these are their kids , Bob, Bob and Bob.

We are the people of no identity or characteristic
The Vanilla's

[Adoring Fan]

Originally posted by yaguero:

Lame, now it is all about stetics....months waiting to screw up last minute and in secrecy so no one could say anything before release. Shame on you Larian

Are you trying to tell me that my half orc gay mongrel is not equal to a white human paladin? how dare you?

[Jack]

It kind of solved my issue with wery restrictive race options depending on class.

The game don't account for sub 16 hitdice on a starting character, and there's no rolling for stats.

Not enterly shure on how I feel about less race identity, but it solved a gripe I had.

[larhtas]

Originally posted by Uzkin:

Originally posted by Replicant Six:

DnD has never had any restrictions on the strength of a race on its size, you're playing the wrong game to have issues with that.

What do you mean I'm playing the wrong game?

I am:
* playing BG1, BG2, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Pathfinder: WOTR, etc.
* not playing (and not buying) BG3.

As someone who thinks that gnomes being as strong as half-orcs is immersion breaking, disrupts roleplaying, and is boring due to homogenization... I'd say I'm playing exactly the right games. :)

No one told you that. For the thousand times:

Originally posted by larhtas:

Originally posted by darkdefiler:

Yea, but look:

small gnome vs giant halforc = same strength, bye bye immersion

I'll explained easily:
What are the level cap of heroic characters? It's 20, whatever your race it's 20. Heroic characters are capped to 20, if we get interest on strength 20 is more strength than an ogre.
So it's not breaking immersion to have a gnome stronger than an ogre at level 8 (15+2+2) but it should be at character creation?

So here first thing first: "YOU ARE NOT PLAYING REGULAR FOLKS YOU ARE PLAYING HEROIC CHARACTERS". WotC told that heroic characters was like "super-heroes". You are playing a super hero.
So no immersion broken as your "regular folks" gnome will always have less strength than "your regular folks half-orc":
-> Strength of regular half-orc: 12
-> Strength of regular gnome: 8

Only... You are not playing a regular folks. If you want to play a regular folks, please do: here your stats:
10 everywhere, good luck with that build through the game!

Your character is an heroic character and he breaks the codes of the species he belongs to. This is basic D&D knowledge...

YOU ARE NOT PLAYING A REGULAR FOLK IN D&D!!!

[Sephiroth]

I just wish they let me combine that +2 and +1 so I could give +3 to my charisma for my sorceror. Other than that I like it.

The race you pick still has some unique stuff. (they could make it better still though). But Overall its ok. But I would like to see may be a little more to race choice. Like orcs get a bonus to something that is physical.

[CiZerin]

Originally posted by Kryldost:

It might not have been a Lock, that was a strong word to describe it and that's my bad. On the other hand, it did influence which class would be better for specific race and a more than often you'd find yourself playing that class just for the stat increase. I enjoy having the freedom to be able to play any class without having to be the "best" race for it.

Ie, as warrior-like gith are they were preferable for wizards for their intelligence boost. + they had better survivability if built properly.

Teeth-ling with their charisma stat were better at being a warlock.

It all depends on your goal.
If we are talking about CRPGs based on DnD - you need to minmax only for hardest difficulty, because it is unfair by its nature and you need every digit you can get to overcome this unfairness.
If we are talking about PnP DnD - you need to minmax only to show all nerds at the table that you are the nerdest nerd in the room and your dices are the biggest one.

In all other cases DnD - is a role playing game. Back in a days I hated all unhumans and played only Human race decpite the class I wanted to play. And it worked. Maybe I wasn't the best Paladin, for example, in the World, but I get what I get and tried to do the best with cards I had on hands. Or I remember a girl I played with in DnD League who had Half-Ork Wizard and it was ok, because she play around her character and try to cast spells with 100% hit chance or asked us to apply disadventague for Save Throw and equiped items to overcome her weaknesses.

[Dragon Master]

For those who are saying "Now I can play whatever race I want as whatever class I want", all I can say is this: What stopped you before?

D&D 5E has bounded accuracy. By choosing a seemingly "suboptimal" race for a particular class, you actually were just engaging in a system of trade-offs. You play as the race you want and get all of their associated racial traits and proficiencies in exchange for potentially losing only 5% accuracy. That is the only difference between a 14 and a 16 in the attributes under bounded accuracy.

[Fraktal]

Originally posted by ✙205🍉🐆→:

Do not be racist, all races are equal in their rights and responsibilities

Yep my halfling is just as strong as a half Orc!!!

/s

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by larhtas:

Originally posted by Uzkin:

What do you mean I'm playing the wrong game?

I am:
* playing BG1, BG2, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Pathfinder: WOTR, etc.
* not playing (and not buying) BG3.

As someone who thinks that gnomes being as strong as half-orcs is immersion breaking, disrupts roleplaying, and is boring due to homogenization... I'd say I'm playing exactly the right games. :)

No one told you that. For the thousand times:

Originally posted by larhtas:

I'll explained easily:
What are the level cap of heroic characters? It's 20, whatever your race it's 20. Heroic characters are capped to 20, if we get interest on strength 20 is more strength than an ogre.
So it's not breaking immersion to have a gnome stronger than an ogre at level 8 (15+2+2) but it should be at character creation?

So here first thing first: "YOU ARE NOT PLAYING REGULAR FOLKS YOU ARE PLAYING HEROIC CHARACTERS". WotC told that heroic characters was like "super-heroes". You are playing a super hero.
So no immersion broken as your "regular folks" gnome will always have less strength than "your regular folks half-orc":
-> Strength of regular half-orc: 12
-> Strength of regular gnome: 8

Only... You are not playing a regular folks. If you want to play a regular folks, please do: here your stats:
10 everywhere, good luck with that build through the game!

Your character is an heroic character and he breaks the codes of the species he belongs to. This is basic D&D knowledge...

YOU ARE NOT PLAYING A REGULAR FOLK IN D&D!!!

And even with the inherent racial stats based on their biology you would still be superior in almost every way to a commoner in D&D, even with a 14 in your main stat.

[Fraktal]

Originally posted by surreptitious:

It Doesnt add anything.
It removes flavor and world building.
One step closer to Vanilla ... Races don't matter alignments don't matter
Welcome to Vanilla world where nothing matters.
You name is Bob , that is Bob over there ... he is a great guy , this is his wife also Bob and she is great too, these are their kids , Bob, Bob and Bob.

We are the people of no identity or characteristic
The Vanilla's

Not just DND. Whole world will be like this.

[Hargert]

If you want races to have set stat limits then you can make them that way.

[khadzad]

Originally posted by Lord_WC:

Originally posted by acidylo:

It creates minmaxing. It is them who are unable to play gnome barbarian without +2 to str. Or half orc wizard without +2. They require optimal build right from the start for anything they want.

I understand, but how does this affect you?
You can't play a gnome barbarian if half-orcs get +2 STR?

I am more or less agreeing with you. Those for those change are quite often using argument that PHB rules forces minmaxing and reduces choice while it is obvious that floating ASI makes minmaxing more easy

[khadzad]

Originally posted by larhtas:

Originally posted by Uzkin:

What do you mean I'm playing the wrong game?

I am:
* playing BG1, BG2, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Pathfinder: WOTR, etc.
* not playing (and not buying) BG3.

As someone who thinks that gnomes being as strong as half-orcs is immersion breaking, disrupts roleplaying, and is boring due to homogenization... I'd say I'm playing exactly the right games. :)

No one told you that. For the thousand times:

Originally posted by larhtas:

I'll explained easily:
What are the level cap of heroic characters? It's 20, whatever your race it's 20. Heroic characters are capped to 20, if we get interest on strength 20 is more strength than an ogre.
So it's not breaking immersion to have a gnome stronger than an ogre at level 8 (15+2+2) but it should be at character creation?

So here first thing first: "YOU ARE NOT PLAYING REGULAR FOLKS YOU ARE PLAYING HEROIC CHARACTERS". WotC told that heroic characters was like "super-heroes". You are playing a super hero.
So no immersion broken as your "regular folks" gnome will always have less strength than "your regular folks half-orc":
-> Strength of regular half-orc: 12
-> Strength of regular gnome: 8

Only... You are not playing a regular folks. If you want to play a regular folks, please do: here your stats:
10 everywhere, good luck with that build through the game!

Your character is an heroic character and he breaks the codes of the species he belongs to. This is basic D&D knowledge...

YOU ARE NOT PLAYING A REGULAR FOLK IN D&D!!!

If - regular half-orc is stronger than regular gnome, then irregular strength oriented half-orc should be stronger than irregular strength oriented gnome (at least at the begining). Not to mention that half orc can stil punt gnome.