Sell me on Sorcerer, Bard, or Warlock

[alexdoerofthings]

I'd like to hear your best argument for one of the three listed above. I'm conflicted!

[DYRT]

4x warlock (fiend) = 4x imp
Think those warlocks as a aircraft carrier, in this case they carry imps: stay out of combat, send your imps to fight, if any imp dies, create new imp and send it again. Infinite imp loop.
Also its fun having 8 unit and fighting with 4x aoe spell + 4x invisible sneaky imp

[SomewhereBeyond]

digitelanimefan lähetti viestin:

SomewhereBeyond lähetti viestin:

this topic is about best class, bard is not even in top 5. as cleric goes 4 and ranger goes 5

actually its pretty sad and fun they made sorc that good. the only caster who can get close is tempest cleric. butsorc would still do more damage, more cc, more utility etc. all other casters feeling useless, as soon as you would understand how powerfull is two-sorc with haste burst setup

My brother in christ, the name of this topic is "Sell me on Sorcerer, Bard, or Warlock". It is not, in fact, about what class is the best in the game.

I have no idea how you came to the idea that Ranger is top 5 though. Like they are...fine? But top 5?

And look-twin haste sorc is certainly very strong, but sorcs DO have downsides. They have a very limited spell list/known spells, which can limit what they do by a lot. You keep citing this ONE THING, and its very strong, yes, but all the rest-the other CC and utility? Wizards get that too. Hell, SO DO BARDS. And Bards get access to way more learned spells, and you can't twin EVERYTHING.

with lvl 1 cleric and rest sorc you have all needed spells, well except those edge cases for exploration.

[Dragon Master]

alexdoerofthings lähetti viestin:

I'd like to hear your best argument for one of the three listed above. I'm conflicted!

I'll go 2 better and give arguments for all three!

Bard: The face, the skill monkey, the build-a-bear class, the bard is capable of filling almost any role in the party and has almost as many skills as a rogue and is good even at the skills they aren't skilled at thanks to Jack of All Trades as a class feature. The bard makes every other member of the party even better and no party is ever worse off with a bard in the party with how good they are at supporting other party members accomplish whatever they want to accomplish.

Upon reaching level 3 you choose your subclass and the colleges make Bards pick where you want them in the party.

College of Lore effectively negates the needs for a rogue in the party altogether and lets the bard also replace the cleric, the wizard, or any other caster the party may have. They'll become more proficient in skills, gain more expertise (being better at skills) and can learn more spells from literally any other class in the game so if you want to be a healer you can, want to throw fireballs, you can, or want to drop lightning from the sky on enemies then you can, summon the dead, conjure creatures, literally any spell from any class can be learned as you level.

College of Valor lets bards enter the front lines, while not as hardy a college of swords they certainly make the tanks tankier, the dps deal more damage in addition to every other bit and bob that the bard has going for them by letting others use the bardic inspiration for extra damage or for extra armor in the event of getting hit. The valor bard is all about making the party shine in battle and doing so better so overall increases the effectiveness of the whole party in combat and not just one or two members.

College of Swords makes the bard a melee dps god, using their inspiration on themselves to deal more and more damage, so that 1d8 rapier he's using suddenly becomes 1d8+1d6, which in turn increases as the bard levels to a whopping 1d12 (not in BG3, level doesn't get that high). The bard also becomes proficient in better armor, and the songs he sings are about his glory, not the groups.

No matter what college you pick the bard is clearly the main character of the game, with pure awesomness, skill and magical prowess as a full caster that can easily fill any 2-3 roles in the party in a single playthrough.

****

The Sorcerer is clearly the main character of the game, hands down no questions asked. You want to feel special? You want to feel like you were born better than others, guess what, that's the sorcerer's MO. Born of a magical lineage, they have magic that just comes natural to them, hard work is for losers, natural talent is where it's at.

A sorcerer is the most adaptable spell-caster in the game thanks to being the only class that gets metamagic. Starting at level 2 you have sorcery points equal to your sorcerer level that you can use to replenish spell slots or alter your spells, making them bonus actions instead, extending the range, casting the same spell twice with only a single spell slot, making it quiet so enemies don't notice you setting their hair on fire or covering their skin with acid.

Sorcerers are clearly the best blasters in the game by virtue of needing less spell slots for more damage and you never know how hard they'll hit you, only that they will hit you very hard.

Starting at level 1 you choose your subclass because it is the source of your magic, your lineage.

Being a draconic sorcerer means your grandpappy is a dragon that you've inherited some of his traits. Your armor is just as good as medium armor while wearing nothing thanks to the hard scales that cover your body with none of the downsides because there is no limit to your dex bonus and it also saves a spell you won't have to learn because mage armor only accomplishes what your scales already do. You also have a lot more health, can have resistance to the type of damage your dragon ancestor is and deal extra damage with any spells that inflict that type of damage.

A storm sorcerer is powered by the storm itself, thunder and lightning are his calling cards. There is no need for subtlety when enemies get blown away by thunder and disintegrated by lightning, for you are Darth Sidious, sending lightning on your foes and unless they are a blue dragon there is nothing they can do about it.

A wild sorcerer is the definition of chaos. No one knows what to expect when around one because not even the wild magic sorcerer knows what to expect. There is always a chance of a wild surge when casting a spell, which means the spell you are casting doesn't happen and something totally random does instead, it may help, hurt or just bewilder you, but it is guaranteed to entertain you. Especially if you turn yourself into a potted plant.

*******

Much like the other two, Warlock is also clearly the main character of the game. Sans the natural talent of the sorcerer or the pure skill of a bard the warlock is the deceptive cousin who made a deal for power and was granted.

The warlock is the true build-a-bear class, none other compare, because they are the most customizable class in the game thanks to eldritch invocations.

The warlock has the fewest spells in the game but they always are cast at the highest level and they are restored after a short rest. They get a lot of cantrips, including the most powerful one in the game, Eldritch Blast, which is customizable through the invocations. It does the most damage, becomes multiple attacks and can have multiple affects when they hit a target which makes warlocks the best long-range turret in the game.

Equally as persuasive as the other two they are also the only class of the three who don't get persuasion as a proficiency via their class (but don't worry, you can get that with your background). Want to become a human with darkvision better than even a drow has? An invocation has you covered and also lets you see in the darkness spell, making you one of the only people in the game who won't be bothered by that spell blinding everyone in the fog and making it impossible to see from outside of it. Want to be able to talk to animals without using a spell slot, another invocation has you covered.

Warlocks are also the only class that technically has 2 subclasses you pick in a single playthroough. The first being whom you made a pact with and the second being the type of pact you make at level 3.

The fiend is a devil from the 9 hells you've made a deal with. You'll be throwing fireballs with the best of the wizards but with more kick and each time you kill an enemy you heal yourself making you rather tank.

The Great Old One is Cthulu's cousin twice removed giving you psychic powers over the minds of others. When you get a critical hit the enemy and those near them become afraid of you, which is always a great debuff and you get some of the best spells in the game because psychic damage is one of the least resisted types of damage in the game. You'll gain a lot of powers over the minds of others.

Having an archfey as your patron means chaos follows in your wake and you'll have a lot of abilities that lay in manipulating others with spells and abilities like charm person. Fey are generally chaotic and can be good or bad for your health as it all depends on their mood and they are consistently inconsistent, and your ability to mess with others will equal theirs.

Basically, fiend is all about the damage, great old one is crowd control and powerful psychic powers while fey is overall manipulation that can be used in and out of combat to great affect.

At level 3 you pick your pact which will change things up significantly.

Pact of the Chain means you get a better version of Find Familiar and you never need to use a spell slot for it, and you start getting invocations that makes your familiar more powerful and effective.

Pact of the Tome is all about increasing how many cantrips you know thereby making you a more effective caster and you can eventually learn the ritual spells from any class in the game as part of your Book of Shadows (warlock spellbook). A warlock doing this can become very difficult to deal with because they almost always have a spell or cantrip for any situation and can deal almost any type of damage that they please.

Pact of the Blade is for the warlocks who really want to get up in an enemies face and just stab them in the eye. Warlock gains proficiency with medium armor and can make any weapon they are proficient with their pact weapon and use charisma instead of strength or dexterity for damage and chances to hit, making them deadly at every range as well as hard to hit.

[Obfitość]

navigator4223 lähetti viestin:

Bard: who doesn't love music and banging everything that walks?

i will turn my own voice into horn

[KEEP PUSHING!]

Wizard and Sorcerer specifically are "oh No you don't !" From level 3 and forward. Sorcerer are specialist and better at one "debuff" thanks to better con save and twinned/heightened spell, while wizard are more utilitarian/generalist and can go pseudo Fiend Warlock with necromancy.
Do note that death is a perfectly valid form of cc

Tldr : they shut down ennemies before they can play.

[Bear]

Dragon Master lähetti viestin:

alexdoerofthings lähetti viestin:

I'd like to hear your best argument for one of the three listed above. I'm conflicted!

I'll go 2 better and give arguments for all three!

Bard: The face, the skill monkey, the build-a-bear class, the bard is capable of filling almost any role in the party and has almost as many skills as a rogue and is good even at the skills they aren't skilled at thanks to Jack of All Trades as a class feature. The bard makes every other member of the party even better and no party is ever worse off with a bard in the party with how good they are at supporting other party members accomplish whatever they want to accomplish.

Upon reaching level 3 you choose your subclass and the colleges make Bards pick where you want them in the party.

College of Lore effectively negates the needs for a rogue in the party altogether and lets the bard also replace the cleric, the wizard, or any other caster the party may have. They'll become more proficient in skills, gain more expertise (being better at skills) and can learn more spells from literally any other class in the game so if you want to be a healer you can, want to throw fireballs, you can, or want to drop lightning from the sky on enemies then you can, summon the dead, conjure creatures, literally any spell from any class can be learned as you level.

College of Valor lets bards enter the front lines, while not as hardy a college of swords they certainly make the tanks tankier, the dps deal more damage in addition to every other bit and bob that the bard has going for them by letting others use the bardic inspiration for extra damage or for extra armor in the event of getting hit. The valor bard is all about making the party shine in battle and doing so better so overall increases the effectiveness of the whole party in combat and not just one or two members.

College of Swords makes the bard a melee dps god, using their inspiration on themselves to deal more and more damage, so that 1d8 rapier he's using suddenly becomes 1d8+1d6, which in turn increases as the bard levels to a whopping 1d12 (not in BG3, level doesn't get that high). The bard also becomes proficient in better armor, and the songs he sings are about his glory, not the groups.

No matter what college you pick the bard is clearly the main character of the game, with pure awesomness, skill and magical prowess as a full caster that can easily fill any 2-3 roles in the party in a single playthrough.

****

The Sorcerer is clearly the main character of the game, hands down no questions asked. You want to feel special? You want to feel like you were born better than others, guess what, that's the sorcerer's MO. Born of a magical lineage, they have magic that just comes natural to them, hard work is for losers, natural talent is where it's at.

A sorcerer is the most adaptable spell-caster in the game thanks to being the only class that gets metamagic. Starting at level 2 you have sorcery points equal to your sorcerer level that you can use to replenish spell slots or alter your spells, making them bonus actions instead, extending the range, casting the same spell twice with only a single spell slot, making it quiet so enemies don't notice you setting their hair on fire or covering their skin with acid.

Sorcerers are clearly the best blasters in the game by virtue of needing less spell slots for more damage and you never know how hard they'll hit you, only that they will hit you very hard.

Starting at level 1 you choose your subclass because it is the source of your magic, your lineage.

Being a draconic sorcerer means your grandpappy is a dragon that you've inherited some of his traits. Your armor is just as good as medium armor while wearing nothing thanks to the hard scales that cover your body with none of the downsides because there is no limit to your dex bonus and it also saves a spell you won't have to learn because mage armor only accomplishes what your scales already do. You also have a lot more health, can have resistance to the type of damage your dragon ancestor is and deal extra damage with any spells that inflict that type of damage.

A storm sorcerer is powered by the storm itself, thunder and lightning are his calling cards. There is no need for subtlety when enemies get blown away by thunder and disintegrated by lightning, for you are Darth Sidious, sending lightning on your foes and unless they are a blue dragon there is nothing they can do about it.

A wild sorcerer is the definition of chaos. No one knows what to expect when around one because not even the wild magic sorcerer knows what to expect. There is always a chance of a wild surge when casting a spell, which means the spell you are casting doesn't happen and something totally random does instead, it may help, hurt or just bewilder you, but it is guaranteed to entertain you. Especially if you turn yourself into a potted plant.

*******

Much like the other two, Warlock is also clearly the main character of the game. Sans the natural talent of the sorcerer or the pure skill of a bard the warlock is the deceptive cousin who made a deal for power and was granted.

The warlock is the true build-a-bear class, none other compare, because they are the most customizable class in the game thanks to eldritch invocations.

The warlock has the fewest spells in the game but they always are cast at the highest level and they are restored after a short rest. They get a lot of cantrips, including the most powerful one in the game, Eldritch Blast, which is customizable through the invocations. It does the most damage, becomes multiple attacks and can have multiple affects when they hit a target which makes warlocks the best long-range turret in the game.

Equally as persuasive as the other two they are also the only class of the three who don't get persuasion as a proficiency via their class (but don't worry, you can get that with your background). Want to become a human with darkvision better than even a drow has? An invocation has you covered and also lets you see in the darkness spell, making you one of the only people in the game who won't be bothered by that spell blinding everyone in the fog and making it impossible to see from outside of it. Want to be able to talk to animals without using a spell slot, another invocation has you covered.

Warlocks are also the only class that technically has 2 subclasses you pick in a single playthroough. The first being whom you made a pact with and the second being the type of pact you make at level 3.

The fiend is a devil from the 9 hells you've made a deal with. You'll be throwing fireballs with the best of the wizards but with more kick and each time you kill an enemy you heal yourself making you rather tank.

The Great Old One is Cthulu's cousin twice removed giving you psychic powers over the minds of others. When you get a critical hit the enemy and those near them become afraid of you, which is always a great debuff and you get some of the best spells in the game because psychic damage is one of the least resisted types of damage in the game. You'll gain a lot of powers over the minds of others.

Having an archfey as your patron means chaos follows in your wake and you'll have a lot of abilities that lay in manipulating others with spells and abilities like charm person. Fey are generally chaotic and can be good or bad for your health as it all depends on their mood and they are consistently inconsistent, and your ability to mess with others will equal theirs.

Basically, fiend is all about the damage, great old one is crowd control and powerful psychic powers while fey is overall manipulation that can be used in and out of combat to great affect.

At level 3 you pick your pact which will change things up significantly.

Pact of the Chain means you get a better version of Find Familiar and you never need to use a spell slot for it, and you start getting invocations that makes your familiar more powerful and effective.

Pact of the Tome is all about increasing how many cantrips you know thereby making you a more effective caster and you can eventually learn the ritual spells from any class in the game as part of your Book of Shadows (warlock spellbook). A warlock doing this can become very difficult to deal with because they almost always have a spell or cantrip for any situation and can deal almost any type of damage that they please.

Pact of the Blade is for the warlocks who really want to get up in an enemies face and just stab them in the eye. Warlock gains proficiency with medium armor and can make any weapon they are proficient with their pact weapon and use charisma instead of strength or dexterity for damage and chances to hit, making them deadly at every range as well as hard to hit.

Thanks for making my choice impossible.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Batd-4/Sorcerer-4/Warlock-4

[Steefy_92]

alexdoerofthings lähetti viestin:

I'd like to hear your best argument for one of the three listed above. I'm conflicted!

Out of three? And pure? Gameplay!/Utility wise Bard.

Warlock is mixed bag, depending how you go about it, but slow start. And really falls under not so much going class. Yes you can build fencing warlock, big deal. Summons are nothing particularly interesting. It would be good choice for beginning due to patron favors that can add to dice rolls but Bard had that like wise.



Sorcerer definitely, if you deciding between it and warlock. Plus those two have excellent synergy if you decide mumticlassing them


All in all, I'd say it comes down to bard and sorcerer, If I would have to choose.

[Locklave]

Warlocks
- Fun as hell
- Easy to play
- Can easily handle talking skill checks because they a Chr based
- Never feel useless
- Impressive ranged damage abilities with just Eldritch Blast cantrip
- Not dependent on spells for damage

[Jaxom]

alexdoerofthings lähetti viestin:

I'd like to hear your best argument for one of the three listed above. I'm conflicted!

Bard 10 Warlock 2 is great as a support class. Can be your healer/face/trapper/locksmith all in one character.

[HerrBlitz]

Bard is a god

[Kiyaya]

Eldritch blast.

[DogWater]

Sorcerer doesn't have the arsenal of a wizard but they have the option of every cast being OP bordering on broken compared to what wizard can dish out. I know it's been said, and amazingly eloquently a few posts above, but metamagic is AMAZING. So far my Dark Urge sorcerer is definitely amazing CC by virtue of corpses being very controlled. The sorcerer subclasses are all pretty enticing too, which can't be said for all subclasses out there. I assume you're asking about these specific three because you want your party leader to win conversation DCs so you're trying to choose a charisma class? At that point it's a matter of do you prefer sleazy, snooty or dodgy for RP purposes. Obviously I doubled down on dodgy pretty hard but to each their own.

[DogWater]

Kiyaya lähetti viestin:

Eldritch blast.

He's got a point.

[Empu]

Bard is like a swizz army knife,