Sell me on Sorcerer, Bard, or Warlock

[alexdoerofthings]

I'd like to hear your best argument for one of the three listed above. I'm conflicted!

[Myth Alric]

Apparently if you play music, other people who can, can join in and play along with you. So maybe you can start a rock band as a bard.

[McDeath]

Publicado originalmente por Thadeus:

Bards are gay.

Sorry.

i second this lol

[SomewhereBeyond]

sorc is best caster. double haste only makes sorc best class, not to mention burst potential.

[Azilian]

Warlock - speak with the animal spell for free... and there are a lot of animals in the game so you need warlock - actually i think i will be something licke bar3 warlock 2 + mb eldrich knight? Yeah mos of you will say you got charisma go paladin but fighter 6 got additional feat or stats so fighters rulez

[digitelanimefan]

Publicado originalmente por Zaris:

Well all these 3 classes depends on high charisma so you can use all of them for dialog checks and trading.

The difference is:
warlock: mostly a single target damage dealer with half the dmg output of a fighter@lvl12 (fighter ~80 dmg a round, warlock ~42, rogue ~ 32).

Sorcerer is more restricted in spell choices than the wizard but most important: dual casting -> hasting up 2 targets instead 1 let you keep 2 buffed fighter types in your party which is really op.

Bard is a total garbage class. You can take a mix of mage, cleric spells but most times only the useless ones. In Solasta the bard became only useful after getting his rank4? aoe spell which was quite good as addition to a real mage (skill checks for lockpick, pickpocket, dialogs can be put on any other character).

I'm sorry, did you just say that Bards-BARDS-are a garbage class?

BARDS?

I am still just reeling from that I am sorry. Like, the rest of your anayisis is on point (although I do wonder: Did you take into account hex for calculating the warlock damage? Hex is pretty much a required spell for them. Add that onto their EBs and they should be cooking good!)

But Bards are literally *the most versatile class in the game.* Even in EA, without sword bard, they are great. Make sure you turn "Ask" For your reactions for their Bardic Inspiration, otherwise the AI tends to waste it.
Spell wise, they are heavy supports-name a support spell, and they get it...except haste, because I guess that would have been TOO much. But hey, go Lore Bard, and now you can take Haste-or literally any other spell in the game. Enjoy!
Assuming all the bard-specific gear is still in the game after release, there is a LOT to really support a Bard in chapter 1. Off the top of my head, there was a gear piece that gives temp hp to whoever you give your BI, and another that gives regular HP. You usually don't want to waste time healing directly, but a little bonus heal with something you are doing anyway? NICE!

Level 1 Bard spells are a bit weaker than most other classes, and they lack in direct damage, so you have to look at their spell list carefully, and evaluate what your party can make use of. Faerie Fire will give your other allies an easier time hitting with attack rolls, Longstrider can help as a gapcloser for Lae'zel, Tasha's is a way to get a combatant out of the fight for a bit, and a lot of enemies aren't great at Int saves. Thunderwave can punish anything that got in your face. And of course, there is the signature Bard spell: Charm Person. Risky if you get caught, but if you aren't going to be around for when it ends...

Once you hit level 2, though? Heat Metal, Detect Thoughts, Hold Person, INVISIBILITY, SHATTER, and I suspect you will get a lot of use out of Silence.

Get to level 3 spells, and you get access to any DMs most feared spell: Hypnotic. Pattern.

On top of all of this, the bard is a skill monkey. Being able to perform well in basically ANY charisma check, on top of whatever other random skills you decided to grab. And Jack of all Trades means that you are a little bit better than most untrained people in your other skills.

[SomewhereBeyond]

Publicado originalmente por Azzilian:

Warlock - speak with the animal spell for free... and there are a lot of animals in the game so you need warlock - actually i think i will be something licke bar3 warlock 2 + mb eldrich knight? Yeah mos of you will say you got charisma go paladin but fighter 6 got additional feat or stats so fighters rulez

just multiclass sorc with 1 lvl dip in nature cleric, free armor + shield proficiency, nature proficiency, guidance thorn whip and speak with animals. wood elf sorc / 1 lvl dip nature cleric with charlatan background covers party face, social, disarm traps, perception, damage and cc. basically you have class that covers many roles at once

and on top of all these twinned haste or quicken fireball

[Sheev Shady]

Publicado originalmente por DOOM THE PRIME EVIL:

Warlock do you like power do you like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ people over with unbound power then my good friend Warlock is the path for you all it costs is your soul and how really needs that

Fancy a Sorlock multiclass? eldritch blast for dayyyys

[SomewhereBeyond]

Publicado originalmente por digitelanimefan:

Publicado originalmente por Zaris:

Well all these 3 classes depends on high charisma so you can use all of them for dialog checks and trading.

The difference is:
warlock: mostly a single target damage dealer with half the dmg output of a fighter@lvl12 (fighter ~80 dmg a round, warlock ~42, rogue ~ 32).

Sorcerer is more restricted in spell choices than the wizard but most important: dual casting -> hasting up 2 targets instead 1 let you keep 2 buffed fighter types in your party which is really op.

Bard is a total garbage class. You can take a mix of mage, cleric spells but most times only the useless ones. In Solasta the bard became only useful after getting his rank4? aoe spell which was quite good as addition to a real mage (skill checks for lockpick, pickpocket, dialogs can be put on any other character).

I'm sorry, did you just say that Bards-BARDS-are a garbage class?

BARDS?

I am still just reeling from that I am sorry. Like, the rest of your anayisis is on point (although I do wonder: Did you take into account hex for calculating the warlock damage? Hex is pretty much a required spell for them. Add that onto their EBs and they should be cooking good!)

But Bards are literally *the most versatile class in the game.* Even in EA, without sword bard, they are great. Make sure you turn "Ask" For your reactions for their Bardic Inspiration, otherwise the AI tends to waste it.
Spell wise, they are heavy supports-name a support spell, and they get it...except haste, because I guess that would have been TOO much. But hey, go Lore Bard, and now you can take Haste-or literally any other spell in the game. Enjoy!
Assuming all the bard-specific gear is still in the game after release, there is a LOT to really support a Bard in chapter 1. Off the top of my head, there was a gear piece that gives temp hp to whoever you give your BI, and another that gives regular HP. You usually don't want to waste time healing directly, but a little bonus heal with something you are doing anyway? NICE!

Level 1 Bard spells are a bit weaker than most other classes, and they lack in direct damage, so you have to look at their spell list carefully, and evaluate what your party can make use of. Faerie Fire will give your other allies an easier time hitting with attack rolls, Longstrider can help as a gapcloser for Lae'zel, Tasha's is a way to get a combatant out of the fight for a bit, and a lot of enemies aren't great at Int saves. Thunderwave can punish anything that got in your face. And of course, there is the signature Bard spell: Charm Person. Risky if you get caught, but if you aren't going to be around for when it ends...

Once you hit level 2, though? Heat Metal, Detect Thoughts, Hold Person, INVISIBILITY, SHATTER, and I suspect you will get a lot of use out of Silence.

Get to level 3 spells, and you get access to any DMs most feared spell: Hypnotic. Pattern.

On top of all of this, the bard is a skill monkey. Being able to perform well in basically ANY charisma check, on top of whatever other random skills you decided to grab. And Jack of all Trades means that you are a little bit better than most untrained people in your other skills.

bards not bad, they just average. if you want powergaming in tactician your party should only have battlemasters, palladins and sorcs

[digitelanimefan]

Publicado originalmente por SomewhereBeyond:

Publicado originalmente por digitelanimefan:

I'm sorry, did you just say that Bards-BARDS-are a garbage class?

BARDS?

I am still just reeling from that I am sorry. Like, the rest of your anayisis is on point (although I do wonder: Did you take into account hex for calculating the warlock damage? Hex is pretty much a required spell for them. Add that onto their EBs and they should be cooking good!)

But Bards are literally *the most versatile class in the game.* Even in EA, without sword bard, they are great. Make sure you turn "Ask" For your reactions for their Bardic Inspiration, otherwise the AI tends to waste it.
Spell wise, they are heavy supports-name a support spell, and they get it...except haste, because I guess that would have been TOO much. But hey, go Lore Bard, and now you can take Haste-or literally any other spell in the game. Enjoy!
Assuming all the bard-specific gear is still in the game after release, there is a LOT to really support a Bard in chapter 1. Off the top of my head, there was a gear piece that gives temp hp to whoever you give your BI, and another that gives regular HP. You usually don't want to waste time healing directly, but a little bonus heal with something you are doing anyway? NICE!

Level 1 Bard spells are a bit weaker than most other classes, and they lack in direct damage, so you have to look at their spell list carefully, and evaluate what your party can make use of. Faerie Fire will give your other allies an easier time hitting with attack rolls, Longstrider can help as a gapcloser for Lae'zel, Tasha's is a way to get a combatant out of the fight for a bit, and a lot of enemies aren't great at Int saves. Thunderwave can punish anything that got in your face. And of course, there is the signature Bard spell: Charm Person. Risky if you get caught, but if you aren't going to be around for when it ends...

Once you hit level 2, though? Heat Metal, Detect Thoughts, Hold Person, INVISIBILITY, SHATTER, and I suspect you will get a lot of use out of Silence.

Get to level 3 spells, and you get access to any DMs most feared spell: Hypnotic. Pattern.

On top of all of this, the bard is a skill monkey. Being able to perform well in basically ANY charisma check, on top of whatever other random skills you decided to grab. And Jack of all Trades means that you are a little bit better than most untrained people in your other skills.

bards not bad, they just average. if you want powergaming in tactician your party should only have battlemasters, palladins and sorcs

1) Okay, if you are boring
2) Not what this topic was even about, bruh
3) Powergaming is never a good scale to compare ANYTHING to.

[SomewhereBeyond]

Publicado originalmente por digitelanimefan:

Publicado originalmente por SomewhereBeyond:

bards not bad, they just average. if you want powergaming in tactician your party should only have battlemasters, palladins and sorcs

1) Okay, if you are boring
2) Not what this topic was even about, bruh
3) Powergaming is never a good scale to compare ANYTHING to.

this topic is about best class, bard is not even in top 5. as cleric goes 4 and ranger goes 5

actually its pretty sad and fun they made sorc that good. the only caster who can get close is tempest cleric. butsorc would still do more damage, more cc, more utility etc. all other casters feeling useless, as soon as you would understand how powerfull is two-sorc with haste burst setup

[FunkyMonkey]

Publicado originalmente por digitelanimefan:

Did you take into account hex for calculating the warlock damage? Hex is pretty much a required spell for them. Add that onto their EBs and they should be cooking good!)

Hex is honestly bit of a trap spell, after levels 3 or 4. Yes, you'll do a little more damage per target, so what? It takes your concentration. Warlocks are full spell casters. Use your concentration for something better. Like, I don't know, Hold person to paralyze one (or later, multiple enemies, Hold person upcasts amazingly well), Invisibility helps in some really obvious ways and upcasts too, Hunger of Hadar or Hypnotic pattern. Warlocks are so much more than just Hex and blast...

[SomewhereBeyond]

Publicado originalmente por FunkyMonkey:

Publicado originalmente por digitelanimefan:

Did you take into account hex for calculating the warlock damage? Hex is pretty much a required spell for them. Add that onto their EBs and they should be cooking good!)

Hex is honestly bit of a trap spell, after levels 3 or 4. Yes, you'll do a little more damage per target, so what? It takes your concentration. Warlocks are full spell casters. Use your concentration for something better. Like, I don't know, Hold person to paralyze one (or later, multiple enemies, Hold person upcasts amazingly well), Invisibility (helps in some really obvious ways and upcasts too, Hunger of Hadar or Hypnotic pattern. Warlocks are so much more than just Hex and blast...

hold person/monster is far better than hex

[FunkyMonkey]

Publicado originalmente por SomewhereBeyond:

Publicado originalmente por FunkyMonkey:

Hex is honestly bit of a trap spell, after levels 3 or 4. Yes, you'll do a little more damage per target, so what? It takes your concentration. Warlocks are full spell casters. Use your concentration for something better. Like, I don't know, Hold person to paralyze one (or later, multiple enemies, Hold person upcasts amazingly well), Invisibility (helps in some really obvious ways and upcasts too, Hunger of Hadar or Hypnotic pattern. Warlocks are so much more than just Hex and blast...

hold person/monster is far better than hex

It sure is. Only way Hex would stay competitive later levels if it upcasted, giving more damage or anything. But it doesn't and is a bad spell later. For warlocks levels 1 & 2, it's fine... but even subclass specific spells are better than it. Fiends get Command, Great old ones get Dissonant whispers AND Hideous laughter, Archfeys most likely get Sleep and Faerie fire.

[digitelanimefan]

Publicado originalmente por SomewhereBeyond:

Publicado originalmente por digitelanimefan:

1) Okay, if you are boring
2) Not what this topic was even about, bruh
3) Powergaming is never a good scale to compare ANYTHING to.

this topic is about best class, bard is not even in top 5. as cleric goes 4 and ranger goes 5

actually its pretty sad and fun they made sorc that good. the only caster who can get close is tempest cleric. butsorc would still do more damage, more cc, more utility etc. all other casters feeling useless, as soon as you would understand how powerfull is two-sorc with haste burst setup

My brother in christ, the name of this topic is "Sell me on Sorcerer, Bard, or Warlock". It is not, in fact, about what class is the best in the game.

I have no idea how you came to the idea that Ranger is top 5 though. Like they are...fine? But top 5?

And look-twin haste sorc is certainly very strong, but sorcs DO have downsides. They have a very limited spell list/known spells, which can limit what they do by a lot. You keep citing this ONE THING, and its very strong, yes, but all the rest-the other CC and utility? Wizards get that too. Hell, SO DO BARDS. And Bards get access to way more learned spells, and you can't twin EVERYTHING.

[SomewhereBeyond]

Publicado originalmente por FunkyMonkey:

Publicado originalmente por SomewhereBeyond:

hold person/monster is far better than hex

It sure is. Only way Hex would stay competitive later levels if it upcasted, giving more damage or anything. But it doesn't and is a bad spell later. For warlocks levels 1 & 2, it's fine... but even subclass specific spells are better than it. Fiends get Command, Great old ones get Dissonant whispers AND Hideous laughter, Archfeys most likely get Sleep and Faerie fire.

most likely your party will have bm and paladin.with hold monster/person they will annihilate most enemies expect close to 200-250 dpr from each at least. thats more than hex can do