So This Is The "Ultimate" Character Creator?

[SnuffSaid]

Saw an article/interview from IGN about how Larian were aiming to create the ultimate character creator here. Even from just reading the article this seemed unlikely as soon as I got to the part where Larian justified the absence of sliders. No fine tuning? Alright, there must surely be a ton of preset options for every part of the face then, I thought. Imagine my surprise when I get in the game and there is just "heads". Not only that, but the humans have only about 8 head presets, basically a couple per major ethnicity.

This can't really be it, can it? Is launch going to suddenly flood the character creation with a host of new options? How likely is that after nearly 3 years in EA? I can't even change body type, I was going to make a human barbarian first but can't take such a soft, wispy default physique seriously.

About a third of the long-winded article was dedicated to genitals and gender identity and how important it is to relate to your character...Are your genitals really more relatable to you than your face or physique? I was looking forward to the impressive graphics and huge amount of cinematics and dialogue, but not if I'm going to be staring at some bland NPC that is supposed to be my character the whole time.

This is a pretty huge stumbling block right out of the gate for me and I'm genuinely surprised I couldn't find many other people bothered by it.

[Pizza_Force]

Originally posted by Bash Arkin:

Originally posted by Pizza_Force:

Not only that, those faces are shared with npc's so it detracts from any sense of individuality. They should've skipped on the 50 colors and tattoos and actually added some faces that fall on the average distribution instead of what we got.

I mean those are just hue sliders, and UV Maps. With skin colors and tattoos most of the work would really just go in to drawing the tattoos, the rest is more or less trivial.

Yeah I get that, but those attributes themselves are touted as something we should be amazed about, but are easy to get in the game, hence the mention. I'm just saying, of all the things to put time into, faces should've have gotten the twice over.

[SnuffSaid]

Originally posted by Pizza_Force:

After all these years in EA I'm suprised they settled only on 8 faces. Did the community not complain enough? Most people are not as ugly or fall on the long face extremes as the presets they gave us, idk what they were thinking. Humans are especially wtf.

Not only that, those faces are shared with npc's so it detracts from any sense of individuality. They should've skipped on the 50 colors and tattoos and actually added some faces that fall on the average distribution instead of what we got.

Definitely this. I'm not even tooting my own horn when I say I'm better looking than the 8 options I'm given and in better shape than the default body, I'm used to playing characters that are superior to me in RPGs rather than a downgrade, lol.

On a serious note though this is why I couldn't understand their talking points about genitals and pronouns being so important for relatability, what could you possibly relate to more than your own face? I'm assuming most people playing RPGs make an idealised version of themselves for at least one run, often the first.

[Bash Arkin]

Originally posted by Pizza_Force:

Originally posted by Bash Arkin:

I mean those are just hue sliders, and UV Maps. With skin colors and tattoos most of the work would really just go in to drawing the tattoos, the rest is more or less trivial.

Yeah I get that, but those attributes themselves are touted as something we should be amazed about, but are easy to get in the game, hence the mention. I'm just saying, of all the things to put time into, faces should've have gotten the twice over.

Fair enough!

[Jin-]

Originally posted by The Techpriest:

You literally cant make beautiful faces or characters anymore for large games. That's simply anathema. It has to be "diverse" and mediocre to ugly as there are literal rules for it. Thankfully modders fix that for us, but the war on beauty will continue until the pendulum swings back.

That only applies to the Western games. A no political ones still have good options for everyone

[Dewit]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

Originally posted by Dewit:

Why would I be bothered by it exactly?

Because it's an RPG?

You're right. It is an rpg. That doesn't answer my previous question. Why would it upset me? It won't be the most groundbreaking cc, but there's going to be more than enough options at launch to keep me happy for a long while. It's easily Larian's best cc.

[SnuffSaid]

Originally posted by Dewit:

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

Because it's an RPG?

You're right. It is an rpg. That doesn't answer my previous question. Why would it upset me? It won't be the most groundbreaking cc, but there's going to be more than enough options at launch to keep me happy for a long while. It's easily Larian's best cc.

CC has always been an integral part of the genre, so much so that some games have been singled out for praise for their character creation even when the game itself isn't going to be winning any awards. There are some RPGs where people have spent more time creating characters than they have total playtime in other genre games. The consensus is that it's important, whether you agree or not. So to answer your question; I don't know why it wouldn't upset you, specifically, but I've explained in detail why it would bother most old school RPG players.

[Faptor]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

CC has always been an integral part of the genre,

Bannerlords CC keeps me coming back and its not even the best in the world, It just has 7 billion sliders so I can mess around trying to make/unmake a monster haha

I hope the real CC is going to be pretty awesome and better than what I expect.

[Dewit]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

Originally posted by Dewit:

You're right. It is an rpg. That doesn't answer my previous question. Why would it upset me? It won't be the most groundbreaking cc, but there's going to be more than enough options at launch to keep me happy for a long while. It's easily Larian's best cc.

CC has always been an integral part of the genre, so much so that some games have been singled out for praise for their character creation even when the game itself isn't going to be winning any awards. There are some RPGs where people have spent more time creating characters than they have total playtime in other genre games. The consensus is that it's important, whether you agree or not. So to answer your question; I don't know why it wouldn't upset you, specifically, but I've explained in detail why it would bother most old school RPG players.

You sure? *most* old school rpg players aren't too phased by it. Such as myself. You don't speak for anyone but yourself, and it seems like you, among several others are most definitely in the minority :). Rather Loud, but minority nonetheless. Anyways, numbers and outstanding reviews speak for itself. If you still want to be vocal about it, that's your Prerogative, but mods do exist since you don't seem to be happy with how the cc is going to be. Just saying.

[Sazzbot]

too much nonense, added to my blocklist.

P.S just because they added many options for character design does not mean you are forced to do anything. BLOCKED

[SnuffSaid]

Originally posted by Dewit:

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

CC has always been an integral part of the genre, so much so that some games have been singled out for praise for their character creation even when the game itself isn't going to be winning any awards. There are some RPGs where people have spent more time creating characters than they have total playtime in other genre games. The consensus is that it's important, whether you agree or not. So to answer your question; I don't know why it wouldn't upset you, specifically, but I've explained in detail why it would bother most old school RPG players.

You sure? *most* old school rpg players aren't too phased by it. Such as myself. You don't speak for anyone but yourself, and it seems like you, among several others are most definitely in the minority :). Rather Loud, but minority nonetheless. Anyways, numbers and outstanding reviews speak for itself. If you still want to be vocal about it, that's your Prerogative, but mods do exist since you don't seem to be happy with how the cc is going to be. Just saying.

Yes, I'm sure. Which is why you are the only contrarian on the thread so far.

Just saying.

[SnuffSaid]

So, yeah, they didn't add any new heads. I think they actually got rid of one for humans, or maybe there was always just 7 and I miscounted before.

This is genuinely bizarre. They've added details like a slider for the rare skin condition vitiligo, a freckle and freckle intensity slider, they've added genitals...But I'm stuck with 7 ugly premade faces? The game might well be amazing but I just can't wrap my head around this decision, it's baffling.

Edit: Silver lining, they did at least add a couple body type presets.

[Kira Von Black]

i'm all for more options and sliders. in the future who knows. more head types/sliders so i can create the character i want. sure... why not?!

[Laub]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

Saw an article/interview from IGN about how Larian were aiming to create the ultimate character creator here. Even from just reading the article this seemed unlikely as soon as I got to the part where Larian justified the absence of sliders. No fine tuning? Alright, there must surely be a ton of preset options for every part of the face then, I thought. Imagine my surprise when I get in the game and there is just "heads". Not only that, but the humans have only about 8 head presets, basically a couple per major ethnicity.

This can't really be it, can it? Is launch going to suddenly flood the character creation with a host of new options? How likely is that after nearly 3 years in EA? I can't even change body type, I was going to make a human barbarian first but can't take such a soft, wispy default physique seriously.

About a third of the long-winded article was dedicated to genitals and gender identity and how important it is to relate to your character...Are your genitals really more relatable to you than your face or physique? I was looking forward to the impressive graphics and huge amount of cinematics and dialogue, but not if I'm going to be staring at some bland NPC that is supposed to be my character the whole time.

This is a pretty huge stumbling block right out of the gate for me and I'm genuinely surprised I couldn't find many other people bothered by it.

The problem these days: The news-sites are writing to much.

[Arani]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

This is a pretty huge stumbling block right out of the gate for me and I'm genuinely surprised I couldn't find many other people bothered by it.

Yeah idk why some people use hyperboles to the point of flat out lying like that. Street Fighter 6's character creator was much more complex at least when it came to body proportions.

But I do think BG3's is really, really good. Many character creators have sliders and they're still bad. Some can have nothing but a bunch of presets and they can be really good (Dragon's Dogma for instance). It's not an either/or question. Preset features are pretty much always much higher in quality than sliders. What they lack is those unique options. And I find the biggest problem most preset character customization games have, is how the devs give us options that don't even come close to meeting our needs and expectations. Take Darktide for example. It has dozens of faces and hairstyles, all very well done. And every single one of them with the exception of just one, being hideously ugly to the point of nobody wanting to use them. There's one normal face, 1-2 normal long hairstyles, out of dozens.

So the reason I think BG3's character customization is great comes down to 2 things:

1. The visual part of the character customization is really good because they have tried to meet the expectations and needs of the gamers. We have several stunningly beautiful faces, some average, and a few rugged and conventionally less attractive. We have an absolute megaton of hairstyles, all of which have been done with ridiculous levels of painstaking detail. I have *never* played a game that didn't need mods for more hairstyles, ever. In a typical game there's 0-2 hairstyles I like, usually 0 so I just settle. This is especially true for slider based character creators. BG3 is honestly the first one that has so many so completely unique and stunningly fabulous hairs of literally all kinds, that I don't believe modders could improve upon that if they tried.
   
   The base bodytype is fit, attractive, but not over the top. Yet we get a more buff version too. Our characters are adventurers, so it fits. And the colour palettes for hair, skin, eyes, and other features have at LEAST dozens of times more options than most of the good character creators out there, including a ton of exotic atypical choices that may not always make sense but nor should they, because it's *our* character. And of course we also have stuff like scars, freckles, moles, scales, horns, accessories, various makeup options, highlights, etc. etc.
   
   This would be great by itself already. But remember that BG3, unlike 99% of the games out there, doesn't have just one race. It has 11 races, each completely different from one another, and 31 subraces. Most of the subraces have some distinct features of their own too. And all those options above depend upon your race. Some are shared, obviously, but not all, and not all of those that are shared look the same on each race / sex. So when you put all of that together and then add the inclusivity options like voices, pronouns, and genitalia on top of that? What you get is a staggering number permutations of beautiful, high quality character designs of all kinds, where I very much doubt many people even in a million would look exactly the same.
   
   My only critique for the character creator is the lack of a height option. But I can live with that.
   
2. While the above is just the visual aspect, the character creation is about much more than just that. On top of all of the above, mechanically and gearing-wise we also get 12 classes with 46 subclasses. And each character has a number of background options, skills, feats, abilities, spells, etc. some of which also depend on your race. And while BG3 has its own homebrew stuff too, an vast majority of everything we have is based strictly and piously on the core (and some addon) D&D 5e rules.

Sliders or not, to say that the BG3 character creator is anything short of incredible would just be objectively wrong. No, it's not perfect. But no character creator ever has been. Even the best ones ever made always had to compromise on something, usually a lot of things. But as a whole, BG3 definitely ranks really, really high up there.

SF6 character creator took a lot of people by surprise. It's *really* good, many held it up as a new standard of how to do that right. Yet it has no mechanical components, no races with truly distinct features. It only has a fraction of the hairstyles of BG3, and not a one of them is as high in quality. Even the faces suffered from the typical slider problem where no matter what you do, ultimately they all just look like different versions of the same, just with their cheeks, eyes and lips stretched a bit differently. That's a problem BG3 doesn't have.

[Flash Point]

It is great, but Diablo 4 skin texture is superior, but that the only good thing out of Diablo