Barbarian Battlemaster

[GuiEstevan]

I'm going barbarian, but I liked the Battle Master's maneuvers. I'm considering multiclassing, how many levels should I invest in Fighter to have the maneuvers?

[Gaius]

This is actually a great multiclass. Whatever you do, reach lv 5 with 1 and them multiclass (to have multiattack as soon as possible).

I'd personally go Battlemaster 6 (for 2 ASI), then Barbarian 4, then the last 2 points at batlemaster. This means you'll have as many ASI as a pure fighter (4, 6, 8, 12).

[[Heretic]Rivga]

Depending on if you hate the idea of respec to your character half way through.

The best would be Barb until level 5 to get two attacks, the 3 levels of fighter.
First levels of Barb are superior to fighter,

At 8 respec to Barb 3 and fighter 5, in my view Barb is amazing up to level 3 then just OK.
Where as fighter at least gets additional feat/ASI.

What you do after that depends on you.

[ahsanford]

Originally posted by Gaius:

This is actually a great multiclass. Whatever you do, reach lv 5 with 1 and them multiclass (to have multiattack as soon as possible).

Respectfully, I do not agree that folks absolutely have to kneecap their L1-L5 experience just for the powergaming upside of a soonest possible 2nd attack.

OP: Gaius gave a perfectly good answer, but I would play around with it and enjoy your early levels. I would personally tinker a bit and rely on respec if I didn't like it.

- A

[The1Kobra]

Just keep in mind that you get more superiority dice from more fighter levels and that fighter 11 gets a 3rd extra attack. Honestly I think you might be better off going full fighter than fighter/barbarian, unless you want to dip 1 level of Barbarian for the AC bonus.
But I generally find that a fighter/barbarian multiclass doesn't synnergize very well.

[Blackdragon]

With the 12 level cap, dipping even 1 level of another class will rob you of a feat/ASI, and dipping two or more levels will rob you of the third attack the Fighter gets at 11. Furthermore, like others mentioned Fighter gets an extra Feat/ASI at 6.

So multiclassing the fighter is a very, very tough choice to make. The default suggestion would be to stick with the class until 12, and only multiclass in the expansion/sequel.

There might be a few very narrow exceptions to this rule, such as Fighter 6/Assassin 3/Gloomstalker 3, which gets you another attack when enemy is surprised and makes all attacks that hit surprised enemies autocrits. You also get thieves' tools, expertise and some limited spellcasting. So, depending on how surprise and stealth will work in final version of the game, it might be a worthwhile build compared to straight fighter.

Or, you might consider dipping a few fighter levels when playing other classes when you wouldn't be getting the third attack anyway (such as Barb 8/Fighter 4 for Action Surge, heavy armor, and Battlemaster maneuvers).

[ahsanford]

Originally posted by The1Kobra:

Just keep in mind that you get more superiority dice from more fighter levels and that fighter 11 gets a 3rd extra attack. Honestly I think you might be better off going full fighter than fighter/barbarian, unless you want to dip 1 level of Barbarian for the AC bonus.
But I generally find that a fighter/barbarian multiclass doesn't synnergize very well.

Agree it's not the most 'wow' sort of multi, but I think it works.

Both use strength.
Rage doesn't mess with Fighter's ability to do what a Fighter does.
A Fighter could sure use the dmg knockdown from Rage.

I'm not saying it's *better* than just riding out Fighter, but it's not muddling prime attributes or taking a big diversion from your primary role in the party to dip into the other class.

- A

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by The1Kobra:

Just keep in mind that you get more superiority dice from more fighter levels and that fighter 11 gets a 3rd extra attack. Honestly I think you might be better off going full fighter than fighter/barbarian, unless you want to dip 1 level of Barbarian for the AC bonus.
But I generally find that a fighter/barbarian multiclass doesn't synnergize very well.

Really? Barbarian / Fighter seems so obvious synergy. Barbarian gives fighters survivability and advantage on all attacks. At will. And fighters give barbarian more attacks than they could normally make. Seems amazing to me.

Other than that, I fully agree with Gaius. Fighter 6 / Barb 4 / Fighter 2 is solid, even great.

[GuiEstevan]

I'm also considering the fun factor and having a variety of options rather than having the most powerful character possible. I want to have the Barbarian interactions right from the beginning and be able to throw enemies, then invest in Battlemaster to have a wide range of attacks.

[ahsanford]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

With the 12 level cap, dipping even 1 level of another class will rob you of a feat/ASI, and dipping two or more levels will rob you of the third attack the Fighter gets at 11.

YMMV.

I plan on thoroughly enjoying my R1 / F11 talker + skillmonkey build. I won't feel robbed of a feat 100+ hours in at L12 becuase I probably loved hours 0-100 more than if I didn't load up on exploration/dialogue skills.

And if I do feel robbed, I'm off to the powergaming history eraser button known as respec.

Just saying.

- A

[ahsanford]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

With the 12 level cap, dipping even 1 level of another class will rob you of a feat/ASI, and dipping two or more levels will rob you of the third attack the Fighter gets at 11.

Doesn't respec 100% irrevocably end any concerns of 'being robbed' or 'you'll be sorry if you don't' that I see all over the forums when people talk about their build?

If you climb your personal build ladder in a way that doesn't work for you... you can just change things!

Really appreciate your post above. This is not a dig. I'm just trying to understand a slice of the forum -- good, fair opinions being shared in these -- that brings the 'clearly understood bestest strategy is X' veteran tabletop 5e mentality to a game that is allowing us to magic wand flashback our characters into whatever we want.

- A

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by ahsanford:

Originally posted by The1Kobra:

Just keep in mind that you get more superiority dice from more fighter levels and that fighter 11 gets a 3rd extra attack. Honestly I think you might be better off going full fighter than fighter/barbarian, unless you want to dip 1 level of Barbarian for the AC bonus.
But I generally find that a fighter/barbarian multiclass doesn't synnergize very well.

Agree it's not the most 'wow' sort of multi, but I think it works.

Both use strength.
Rage doesn't mess with Fighter's ability to do what a Fighter does.
A Fighter could sure use the dmg knockdown from Rage.

I'm not saying it's *better* than just riding out Fighter, but it's not muddling prime attributes or taking a big diversion from your primary role in the party to dip into the other class.

- A

You can get Rage by dipping 1 level into Barb, and keep Fighter for the other 11 to get three attacks. You'll sacrifice a feat/ASI for that, but fighter already gets an extra one at 6, so you will still be able to get your primary stat to 20 and have 1-2 build-defining feats like GWM. Is +2 damage and resistance to physical for 10 turns twice per long rest worth a feat slot? Perhaps. Once you take your most important feat, the others are more situational, and Rage is more useful than most of them for sure.

Other than Rage, Barb's best ability is Frenzied Strike from Berserker which allows attacking with your bonus action. But If you're taking the Great Weapon Master feat, you will already be getting a bonus action attack quite often (on kill or crit), so it will overlap with Frenzied Strike, reducing the latter's value.

[maniacal<1>]

Just honest question...did Larian release the leveling info on classes and I missed it, or is everyone theory-crafting on their multiclass while having no idea how classes are going to be structured per level?

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Originally posted by ahsanford:

Agree it's not the most 'wow' sort of multi, but I think it works.

Both use strength.
Rage doesn't mess with Fighter's ability to do what a Fighter does.
A Fighter could sure use the dmg knockdown from Rage.

I'm not saying it's *better* than just riding out Fighter, but it's not muddling prime attributes or taking a big diversion from your primary role in the party to dip into the other class.

- A

You can get Rage by dipping 1 level into Barb, and keep Fighter for the other 11 to get three attacks. You'll sacrifice a feat/ASI for that, but fighter already gets an extra one at 6, so you will still be able to get your primary stat to 20 and have 1-2 build-defining feats like GWM. Is +2 damage and resistance to physical for 10 turns twice per long rest worth a feat slot? Perhaps. Once you take your most important feat, the others are more situational, and Rage is more useful than most of them for sure.

Other than Rage, Barb's best ability is Frenzied Strike from Berserker which allows attacking with your bonus action. But If you're taking the Great Weapon Master feat, you will already be getting a bonus action attack quite often (on kill or crit), so it will overlap with Frenzied Strike, reducing the latter's value.

Are you overlooking Reckless attack? Advantage on all attacks you make seems pretty sweet for a Fighter to multiclass into and combined with damage resistance, giving up fighters third attack seems more like a question of preference than which one is better.

[ahsanford]

Originally posted by maniacal<1>:

Just honest question...did Larian release the leveling info on classes and I missed it, or is everyone theory-crafting on their multiclass while having no idea how classes are going to be structured per level?

Larian give us a player's handbook? No, they haven't. We just assume L1-L5 will roll like it did in EA (with some new subclasses coming), and folks are overlaying 5e L6+ assumptions for the rest.

Again: if we get pantsed on those assumptions, we respec. No worries.

- A

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by ahsanford:

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

With the 12 level cap, dipping even 1 level of another class will rob you of a feat/ASI, and dipping two or more levels will rob you of the third attack the Fighter gets at 11.

Doesn't respec 100% irrevocably end any concerns of 'being robbed' or 'you'll be sorry if you don't' that I see all over the forums when people talk about their build?

If you climb your personal build ladder in a way that doesn't work for you... you can just change things!

Really appreciate your post above. This is not a dig. I'm just trying to understand a slice of the forum -- good, fair opinions being shared in these -- that brings the 'clearly understood bestest strategy is X' veteran tabletop 5e mentality to a game that is allowing us to magic wand flashback our characters into whatever we want.

- A

Respeccing every level to get the most of builds/ASI's is a degree of munchkinism even I am anxious to stoop down to. Doing this for every one of your party members would mean you're spending more time fiddling with level-ups than actually playing.

I remember when a system like that was used in another RPG - namely, Tyranny. They had this awesome idea of player-designed spells. Great on paper, and exciting initially, but when you have to fiddle with the spellbooks of four characters every time your party gains a level, it becomes annoying fast. In Elder Scrolls, making your own spells was fine because there was only one character (the protagonist), but doing it in a party-based RPG is just a lot of hassle.

Personally, coming from tabletop tradition, I think respec should be used very sparingly. I normally use it in CRPGs once per NPC companion to make them have efficient builds, instead of whatever crap came out of developers' pipe-dreams of "character-driven narratives informing character builds". Doing it every level just seems antithetical to D&D spirit, where levels are supposed to represent your character's accrued life experience, not just a set of building blocks free to be rearranged in any way you see fit.