Cleric/Bard Optimization...

[Fast]

Ive never played this class in D&D even on table top.

And i was thinking it might be incredibly fun with how the game is set out.

But maybe someone can advise.

I will Start Level 1 Cleric and then multiclass into Lore Bard and go to level 12 as bard.

I was thinking Life cleric whilst u lose a single ASI, it allows you at level 6 bard to take 2 cleric spells (it should) instead of at level 10 with other bard subclasses, meaning you can take guardians and whatever else.
But importantly this lets you get guidance, wear heavy armour and shields, and disciple of life, bless etc you can then go into Bard, and benefit from a huge amount of proficiencies as well as all of bards incredible spells and class abilities.

This class will cover the dialogue,support,utility,,skill monkey and control options.

Meaning you can take whatever party members you like and not feel gimped.

If anyone knows some specific picks that are either necessary or should be considered greatly let me know.

[Dremall]

Magical Secrets lets you pick from any spell list, you just need to be able to cast spells of that level.

[Fast]

Originally posted by Dremall:

Magical Secrets lets you pick from any spell list, you just need to be able to cast spells of that level.

itll be level 3 spells for the level 6 bard, so probably guardians and aid for the extra hitpoints remembering we have life domain (disciple of life) so its almost double.

[[Heretic]Rivga]

Level 1 of life cleric for armour and healing bonus is a solid start to Bard.

Basically if a feat offered you: heavy armour and additional healing it would be worth while in my view.

Thats the way to judge all of these options.
What do I get vs what do I lose.

[Fast]

Originally posted by HereticRivga:

Level 1 of life cleric for armour and healing bonus is a solid start to Bard.

Basically if a feat offered you: heavy armour and additional healing it would be worth while in my view.

Thats the way to judge all of these options.
What do I get vs what do I lose.

Im hopeful this class can fill multiple roles so i dont feel stuck needing a astarian or shadowheart (i know u can respec) but in the context of being forced to take certain classes or characters is annoying af.

SHould be able to do all the dialogues, skill monkey, control/utility/support/buff/heal

All i need is some martial, some ranged single target and an aoe.

[The1Kobra]

Generally, I don't recommend multiclassing pure caster class characters. This is especially the case since you will need to split your casting stats too.
There's a considerable degree of overlap in the spellbooks too, and the way it works in D&D5, multiclassing caster classes gives you the same number of spellslots, just different spell selections. Either way I'd go all in on one or the other, at least with cleric/bard. Unless you want to play a bard and reeeeaaaally want the guidance cantrip.

[[Heretic]Rivga]

Originally posted by The1Kobra:

Generally, I don't recommend multiclassing pure caster class characters. This is especially the case since you will need to split your casting stats too.
There's a considerable degree of overlap in the spellbooks too, and the way it works in D&D5, multiclassing caster classes gives you the same number of spellslots, just different spell selections. Either way I'd go all in on one or the other, at least with cleric/bard. Unless you want to play a bard and reeeeaaaally want the guidance cantrip.

Absolutely no reason not to in this case they lose NOTHING, other than getting spells 1 level later.

The way 5e rules are set and due to it being lvl 12 max, really is not the cast that mixing casters is not OK.
A 6 bard/6 Sorc has the same spell slots, number of spells casted, a day as a 12 lvl Bard.
The only difference is they can only get to lvl 3 spells, but you can up cast those lvl 3 spells.

[Fast]

Originally posted by The1Kobra:

Generally, I don't recommend multiclassing pure caster class characters. This is especially the case since you will need to split your casting stats too.
There's a considerable degree of overlap in the spellbooks too, and the way it works in D&D5, multiclassing caster classes gives you the same number of spellslots, just different spell selections. Either way I'd go all in on one or the other, at least with cleric/bard. Unless you want to play a bard and reeeeaaaally want the guidance cantrip.

This is incorrect in the case im looking at because we are not using spells that need a wisdom modifier generally speaking with the exception of healing spells, but since disciple of life is 2+ level . So in theory we still have really good healing should be need it, though drinking potions and resting is better, and only healing at like 1 hp is ever worth.

Bless for example. just works. Guidance just works. etc etc. The spells we pick with magical secrets aid will benefit from disciple of life , and and guardians works well for aoe.

[Fast]

I should also mention magical secrets spells are calculated off of charisma.

So it will either be /counterspell/haste/aid/guardians depending on what im thinking at the time.

[ahsanford]

Dude made a video about a Cleric Bard super support role build:

https://youtu.be/Q4iw6MPxSDg?t=1399

Tee up at 23:18 to hear that build in particular. He goes through it level by level and why/what he chose.

- A

[Sonic Titan]

Originally posted by Fast:

multiclass

is generally weaker than pure classing the exception would be if the cap was level 16 rather than 12

[Fast]

Originally posted by Sonic Titan:

Originally posted by Fast:

multiclass

is generally weaker than pure classing the exception would be if the cap was level 16 rather than 12

This is true, but some niche cases exist and some that can get away with missing out on just 1 asi. for example in this case, we lose 1 asi/feat but we gain, increases healing(disciple of life), heavy armor, shields, guidance, thaumaturgy , sacared flame, bless and healing word, create water etc.

there is no asi or feat that will match this. We lose nothing.
We will also be able to cast aid/haste/guardians/counterspell based on Charisma. insead of wisdom too.

[Farsha]

Bard is CHA caster, Cleric is WIS caster. That is not a good multiclass.
There are many good CHA classes that are great with Bard.
Cleric is not a good choise.

[Sonic Titan]

Originally posted by Fast:

Originally posted by Sonic Titan:

is generally weaker than pure classing the exception would be if the cap was level 16 rather than 12

This is true, but some niche cases exist and some that can get away with missing out on just 1 asi. for example in this case, we lose 1 asi/feat but we gain, increases healing, heavy armor, shields, guidance, thaumaturgy , sacared flame, bless and healing word, create water etc.

there is no asi or feat that will match this.

I'm just quoting you from your thread about multiclassing scruffing characters.

[Fast]

Originally posted by Farsha:

Bard is CHA caster, Cleric is WIS caster. That is not a good multiclass.
There are many good CHA classes that are great with Bard.
Cleric is not a good choise.

This is incorrect , because we are not looking to cast much that uses wisdom modifier.
For example, bless, create water, guidance, thaumaturgy do not require wisdom, and we get a 2+ level to healing word for disciple of life.
Meaning that its a non issue. And magical secrets casts based on charisma.

[Fast]

Originally posted by Sonic Titan:

Originally posted by Fast:

This is true, but some niche cases exist and some that can get away with missing out on just 1 asi. for example in this case, we lose 1 asi/feat but we gain, increases healing, heavy armor, shields, guidance, thaumaturgy , sacared flame, bless and healing word, create water etc.

there is no asi or feat that will match this.

I'm just quoting you from your thread about multiclassing scruffing characters.

yeh most of the time its not very good. But there are niche cases where it can work out better.