Reckless Attack vs Finesse

[Majere]

I'd been kicking about the idea of a Barbarian/ Rogue with high DEX and CON to get a really good unarmoured AC in BG3. Obviously you'd have to use Finesse weapons to be able to hit anything with a relatively low Strength.

However, I've seen PnP players mention that Reckless Attack doesn't work with Finesse, and only gives Advantage on attacks using Strength. The description just seems to say that you get Advantage on Attack Rolls, but that seems to be it.

Does anyone know if it'd work- or for that matter, how easy it'd be to respec if it doesn't?

[Detective Costeau]

Does it work? I have no idea. How easy is it to respec if it doesn't? From what we know, extremely easy.

[BigAlzBub]

From Fextralife...
Reckless Attack Guide in Baldur's Gate 3

The Barbarian can unlock the Reckless Attack at second level. This action will let you throw aside all concern for defense to attack with fierce desperation. When you make your first attack on your turn, you can decide to attack recklessly. This will give you Advantage on melee weapon attack rolls using Strength during this turn, but attack rolls against you have Advantage until your next turn.

This is identical to how it works in Tabletop, but feel free to test it.

[Pandasaur]

So, Rage and Reckless, two core Barbarian abilities, only work with Strength-based weapons. In RAW, anyway, I don't think Larian will change that but Barbarian/Rogues don't do well together at all.

Barbarians want high Str/Dex/Con, Rogues want Dex and at least one mental stat. Satisfying all of that with a point buy build is going to make you spread too thin, unfortunately.

[Gaius]

You CAN use reckless attack with finesse weapons IF YOUR STR BEATS YOUR DEX. The attack roll must use STR, and that's what is used with finesse weapons if STR > DEX.

This is the keu to rogue/barb builds, you gotta make a STR rogue with finesse weapons to enable sneak attack) but have higher STR.

[Majere]

Thanks for the info, everyone, last time I had anything to do with AD&D AC went in the other direction :)

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by Majere:

I'd been kicking about the idea of a Barbarian/ Rogue with high DEX and CON to get a really good unarmoured AC in BG3. Obviously you'd have to use Finesse weapons to be able to hit anything with a relatively low Strength.

However, I've seen PnP players mention that Reckless Attack doesn't work with Finesse, and only gives Advantage on attacks using Strength. The description just seems to say that you get Advantage on Attack Rolls, but that seems to be it.

Does anyone know if it'd work- or for that matter, how easy it'd be to respec if it doesn't?

The problem isn't reckless attack working/not working, it is that the extra damage from rage only applies when used with a melee attack that uses strength. So if you are actually using the finesse property (i.e., using your dex for your attack and damage) then you CANNOT add the additional damage from raging. At that point, getting advantage isn't much of a benefit because you only need an ally in melee range of your target to trigger sneak attack as it is.

edit: and reckless attack specifies "Doing so gives you advantage on melee weapon attack rolls using Strength during this turn, but attack rolls against you have advantage until your next turn." So no, it doesn't work with finesse. Or at least it shouldn't RAW.

[SpartanSquid]

So I can't speak from a BG3 stance as I haven't tested it in game, however since RAW was mentioned.

Sneak attack's qualifiers DO NOT require a dex based attack. Merely a finesse weapon must be used. So if you built a Str/Con Rogue/Barbarian; you would be making your attack rolls with Strength, while using a finesse weapon. This would trigger the extra damage from the barbarians rage. As well as give you a greater chance for critical hits(these double sneak attack dice as well) along with allow the character to "solo" enemies in combat without anyone else supporting him in melee.

This works because the finesse traits allows you to choose either strength or dexterity, it doesn't choose for you.

Two options I see is a Rapier and shield, since our dex is likely lacking this will help make up for a slightly lower than average AC until magic items can be acquired.

Dual scimitars, finesse and light weapons that allow for an off hand attack once again looking to potentially hit that crit to boost the damage.

Other synergies worth mentioning in this multi-class are:

Danger sense and Evasion: Danger sense gives you advantage on trap and spell DEX saves and evasion allows you to take no damage instead of half on a successful dex save. I think this is pretty self-explanatory.

DR from Rage(potentially Bear Totem if you go further into Barb) and Uncanny Dodge: The DR halves the damage your taking but triggers after the Uncanny dodge takes effect. So once per round you can take 1/4 damage from any 1 attack that doesn't involve a saving throw.

This last one is smaller but still decent.
Fast movement/Cunning action: This allows our Barb/Rogue to move 40ft per round or 80 if they use the dash action. While not useful in every encounter if he's chewing up opponents this will help him get to his next victim or to an ally in need of help.

Hope this clears things up.

[psychotron666]

The only thing that doesn't synergize with that build in tabletop is you don't get your extra 2 points of rage damage from finesse attacks which isn't a big deal

[Sentient_Toaster]

Originally posted by psychotron666:

The only thing that doesn't synergize with that build in tabletop is you don't get your extra 2 points of rage damage from finesse attacks which isn't a big deal

Or Elven Accuracy, which does not allow the use of strength, so you can't easily cheese this into recklessly attacking becoming super-advantage.

[Dr. Electrocutioner]

There are 2 longswords available early on that are versatile and finesse.

A barbarian/rougue can run up in someone's face and do a reckless sneak attack that adds strength bonus with these. One can be bought in the creche and the other is in the underdark very close to the Selune outpost.

[SpartanSquid]

Originally posted by psychotron666:

The only thing that doesn't synergize with that build in tabletop is you don't get your extra 2 points of rage damage from finesse attacks which isn't a big deal

Its not a finesse attack. It's a strength attack with a finesse weapon. A very good example of how this would function is the 'Revenant Blade' feat from "Eberron-Rising from the Last War pg 22." It's a dual-blade scimitar that has the finesse trait if you have the feat.

[psychotron666]

Originally posted by SpartanSquid:

Originally posted by psychotron666:

The only thing that doesn't synergize with that build in tabletop is you don't get your extra 2 points of rage damage from finesse attacks which isn't a big deal

Its not a finesse attack. It's a strength attack with a finesse weapon. A very good example of how this would function is the 'Revenant Blade' feat from "Eberron-Rising from the Last War pg 22." It's a dual-blade scimitar that has the finesse trait if you have the feat.

If you're using finesse (your dex modifier) then it's a finesse attack and not a strength attack. Yes, you can use strength with a finesse weapon, but in OP case they are dumping strength and going with dex, in which case your attacks won't benefit from the barbarian rage extra damage

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

So, Sneak Attack only requires that the weapon be finesse, not that you actually use Dex for the attack roll.

There's a way around this - attack with Phalar Aluve. You can even make a "physical" Barbarian, putting equal points into Dex as you do into Str, so you get all the advantages, but it's not strictly necessary.

Anyway, if you are wielding Phalar Aluve and have a higher Str, you can Recklessly Attack using Str, but because you are attacking with a Finesse weapon you will still trigger Sneak Attack.

[Dr. Electrocutioner]

You can get Phalar Aluve right at the start of the game without fighting anything if you know the way and can sneak or talk your way past a single ogre then make a roll to retrieve it.

[Sentient_Toaster]

Originally posted by Dr. Electrocutioner:

There are 2 longswords available early on that are versatile and finesse.

A barbarian/rougue can run up in someone's face and do a reckless sneak attack that adds strength bonus with these. One can be bought in the creche and the other is in the underdark very close to the Selune outpost.

Along those lines, there's a finesse glaive available later on. It's legal for sneak attacks, since it *is* a finesse weapon -- but not legal as a monk weapon, because it's two-handed and heavy. The extra damage die isn't that important for a mostly-rogue, but the reach might be.