Are Humans race just pure garbo now

[Etagloc]

Since they unlocked the stats from each race, I think the made it all +2 and +1.

are humans just irrelevant.

Or maybe they added variant human now?.

[HozzMidnight]

Yes humans are objectively the worst race in terms of power. Not close, no debate at all. Half Elves are better, but now objectively worse than their Elf parent race so no point in choosing them either from a power perspective.

Not sure why Larian would do this...the only explanations I can come up with is that they are morons and did not realize they were gimping those races (seems unlikely) or they are deliberately steering people away from those races, which seems very on brand for them.

[ez game ez life]

humans probably will get +1 proficiency which can be huge

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Drakkanien:

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

Based on what's come out from places like Fextralife, humans are getting +20 carrying capacity, light armor proficiency and polearm proficiency.

If this remains true when the game releases, then yes. Humans will be pure garbage as a racial option and will be objectively the worst race in the game.

To be honest, any kind of proficiency is bad for taking away their Ability Points. Most people would take class and use weapons/armor it provides, even in tabletop DnD/Pathfinder you do not pick race because of what weapons/armor it gives you, no?

No, that is one of the reasons people would pick a dwarf or a githyanki wizard, because of the proficiencies with medium armor or the weapon proficiencies. It made for varied and interesting builds but came with tradeoff associated with the lack of intelligence (for dwarves at least), but you could still specialize your dwarf to use magic as a wizard.

It was a system of trade-offs and bounded accuracy in 5E made it so the trade-offs weren't crippling and wouldn't handicap your character, they were just big enough to be noticed but small enough not to matter.

Now, racial traits without any of the racial stats means that the trade-off has been removed entirely and races can now be quantified as being objectively better or objectively worse than other races.

[Fraktal]

Originally posted by Space Hamster Family:

Originally posted by Etagloc:

Since they unlocked the stats from each race, I think the made it all +2 and +1.

are humans just irrelevant.

Or maybe they added variant human now?.

WoTC wanted to eliminate the idea of "race". The term they use now is species. The belief that one "race" had advantages over the other was inherently racist according to their wisdom. Larian was forced to adopt this. So, yes.

Lol that’s doublespeak for “we don’t want all rogues being X race or fighter/barbs being Y race”.

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by ahsanford:

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

By virtue of not having the racial traits other races have that are objectively better in every way, and not having the +1 to every attribute that made them the best at multiclassing compared to every other race and the only race that could excel at every class sooner, and by virtue of the stat requirements for multiclassing being removed so there is literally nothing humans get that other races cannot do better by default now.

Every max-min-er out there reading this: "Yup. Testify, brother. Agree."

Every culture warrior out there reading this: "Mumbles about *others* getting things I don't"

Every RP / story / experience focused player: "I wanted to RP a human, so I did. [100-200 hours elapse.] Just beat the game, it was awesome. Being human somehow didn't set my happiness on fire. Who knew?"

Dragon Master, you can be right and wrong at the same time. I respect your opinion, but don't see this design decision to be a bad one.

- A

And as a result of the changes roleplay has become the ONLY reason to play as a human.

[BigJ]

They are, they get polearm proficiency and extra carry weight. Extremely useless when compared to other classes since fighter, the one that benefits from polearms the most gets it already, so unless you are planning on a war cleric build, this ain't gonna fly.

[HozzMidnight]

Originally posted by lordgizka:

They'll most likely give humans a skill proficiency, which will still make them a terrible pick, because they have no special features. As for half-elves, who knows.

It is confirmed that Humans get pole arm and light armor proficiency as well as +20 carry capacity and half elves got nothing.

[Nightmarian]

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

By virtue of not having the racial traits other races have that are objectively better in every way, and not having the +1 to every attribute that made them the best at multiclassing compared to every other race and the only race that could excel at every class sooner, and by virtue of the stat requirements for multiclassing being removed so there is literally nothing humans get that other races cannot do better by default now.

They're better by degrees of grains of sand, and do have some potentially useful traits like shields.

You are again also ignoring my comment about race-locked magic items, items which you'd never find in actual DnD and which are good enough to literally build around.

You're just drowning in ignorance, crossing your arms, pouting, and throwing a tantrum. If you want to narrow your vision down to character selection and a specific definition of strong (ignoring stuff like human wizards getting light armor and shields for free for instance), then yes mate, humans are the worst race ever.

Oh woe is you that your super specific definition of power has been thwarted, guess there's a gun to your head and you'll have to play one of the other many races...? The horror, I know.

Somehow, I know a brave chad like you will survive while millions literally laugh at you and pick human anyway.

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Space Hamster Family:

Originally posted by Etagloc:

Since they unlocked the stats from each race, I think the made it all +2 and +1.

are humans just irrelevant.

Or maybe they added variant human now?.

WoTC wanted to eliminate the idea of "race". The term they use now is species. The belief that one "race" had advantages over the other was inherently racist according to their wisdom. Larian was forced to adopt this. So, yes.

Yeah, that's dumb.

Because no one is going to stop saying the word "races" after years of using it just because WotC got a stick up their butt about it being racist to say "race".

It still doesn't change the fact that races do, in fact, have advantages over other races by virtue of the racial traits. Without the racial stats it means that the races with the most usable or most often used racial traits are objectively better than the races that have fewer and/or less used racial traits.

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by BigJ:

They are, they get polearm proficiency and extra carry weight. Extremely useless when compared to other classes since fighter, the one that benefits from polearms the most gets it already, so unless you are planning on a war cleric build, this ain't gonna fly.

There has been speculation that Monks can use any weapon they're proficient with as a monk weapon in BG3, which would be huge boon for the class.

[Space Hamster Family]

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

Originally posted by Space Hamster Family:

WoTC wanted to eliminate the idea of "race". The term they use now is species. The belief that one "race" had advantages over the other was inherently racist according to their wisdom. Larian was forced to adopt this. So, yes.

Yeah, that's dumb.

Because no one is going to stop saying the word "races" after years of using it just because WotC got a stick up their butt about it being racist to say "race".

It still doesn't change the fact that races do, in fact, have advantages over other races by virtue of the racial traits. Without the racial stats it means that the races with the most usable or most often used racial traits are objectively better than the races that have fewer and/or less used racial traits.

the WoTC have accomplished a lot of "dumb" things as you know.

[Nightmarian]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

Originally posted by BigJ:

They are, they get polearm proficiency and extra carry weight. Extremely useless when compared to other classes since fighter, the one that benefits from polearms the most gets it already, so unless you are planning on a war cleric build, this ain't gonna fly.

There has been speculation that Monks can use any weapon they're proficient with as a monk weapon in BG3, which would be huge boon for the class.

It's just non-heavy/2hand weapons, that's not new.

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

Originally posted by BigJ:

They are, they get polearm proficiency and extra carry weight. Extremely useless when compared to other classes since fighter, the one that benefits from polearms the most gets it already, so unless you are planning on a war cleric build, this ain't gonna fly.

There has been speculation that Monks can use any weapon they're proficient with as a monk weapon in BG3, which would be huge boon for the class.

Greatsword monk weapon thanks to githyanki! (2d6 damage).

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Space Hamster Family:

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

Yeah, that's dumb.

Because no one is going to stop saying the word "races" after years of using it just because WotC got a stick up their butt about it being racist to say "race".

It still doesn't change the fact that races do, in fact, have advantages over other races by virtue of the racial traits. Without the racial stats it means that the races with the most usable or most often used racial traits are objectively better than the races that have fewer and/or less used racial traits.

the WoTC have accomplished a lot of "dumb" things as you know.

Yup.

[lordgizka]

Originally posted by HozzMidnight:

Originally posted by lordgizka:

They'll most likely give humans a skill proficiency, which will still make them a terrible pick, because they have no special features. As for half-elves, who knows.

It is confirmed that Humans get pole arm and light armor proficiency as well as +20 carry capacity and half elves got nothing.

Light armor? To make human pure casters and monks tankier, I suppose?