Reason for the level cap?

[Cynbell]

This is not a complain thread but I'm just wondering why does Sven picked this specific number. Did he said anything about it?

[Heu, Iterum Id Feci]

Originally posted by super_jqp:

Originally posted by dermaniac:

Level 15-20 are essentially demigods and often deal with issues involving multiple planes of existence

*cough cough* ...and still Owlcat Games made me feel underpowered at level 19.

Don't get me wrong... I'm on the hype train. But what is Larian's real excuse? Probably a possible DLC. It's not like they lack experience telling stories about divine strife.

Owlcat games are Pathfinder, though, not D&D5e.

The real excuse is content. If they want to stick to the official XP curve, which seems to be the case, they have enough content to get you reliably to level 12.
Level 12 are 100000XP
level 13 are an additional 20000XP alone
level 14 again 20000XP
Level 13 alone would require a ton of additional content to reward you with enough XP, unless you simply inflate the numbers, an approach that others have done.
Also you unlock level 7 spells on level 13. so adding those would require a whole new set of balancing etc.

[Hobocop]

Because you need to make story content and reactivity that befits the stakes and abilities of the characters involved.

Otherwise, you get boring, tedious nonsense like NWN1's vanilla OC.

[LArc7thHeaven]

5e problem the same with solasta. More streamlined and multiclassing is a gamble compared to 3.5e

[Wraith]

Originally posted by super_jqp:

Originally posted by dermaniac:

Level 15-20 are essentially demigods and often deal with issues involving multiple planes of existence

*cough cough* ...and still Owlcat Games made me feel underpowered at level 19.

Don't get me wrong... I'm on the hype train. But what is Larian's real excuse? Probably a possible DLC. It's not like they lack experience telling stories about divine strife.

Owlcat games are multiple adventures path condenses into one game

Kingmaker adventure paths end at 17 so boosting it to 20 isn’t crazy

Wraith of the righteous is dealing with arch demons and stuff who are pretty much demigods so again 20 isn’t crazy

[Heu, Iterum Id Feci]

I swear...sometimes I think if they just added 4 empty levels, where you get some minor meaningless random increase people would be happy, even though nothing really has changed, except the numbers look bigger...If it helps you, think of every level as 5 or 10 levels in your other generic RPG...^^

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by Wraith:

Originally posted by super_jqp:

*cough cough* ...and still Owlcat Games made me feel underpowered at level 19.

Don't get me wrong... I'm on the hype train. But what is Larian's real excuse? Probably a possible DLC. It's not like they lack experience telling stories about divine strife.

Owlcat games are multiple adventures path condenses into one game

Kingmaker adventure paths end at 17 so boosting it to 20 isn’t crazy

Wraith of the righteous is dealing with arch demons and stuff who are pretty much demigods so again 20 isn’t crazy

And even then, Wrath had a separate progression track for characters beyond just character levels that further inflated power levels.

[cire87]

i think the level cap is fine but i would love if we could hit 20 without the use of mods

[feytharn]

Originally posted by Zaris:

"it must include all levels / spell ranks"

Did you play the first Baldur's Gate? because level cap was 7/8 depending on character class.

[Dinvan]

Originally posted by dermaniac:

Level 15-20 are essentially demigods and often deal with issues involving multiple planes of existence

The "demigod" tier is often out of scope for most stories, so most D&D campaigns end before reaching level 15.

This is not true, the players handbook (page 15) describes levels 17-20 as "Heroic (or villianous) archetypes" where the fate of the world is at stake. You are more akin to super heroes, think doctor strange and the avengers rather than actual demi gods.

Actual demi gods in D&D are way more powerful than a level 20 party let alone a single level 20 character, usually having real reality warping powers rather than a few spells.

Before any one brings up wish, learn to read. The spell has clear limitations when not replicating a level 8 or lower spell and even 33% chance to never be able to cast it again when you cast it outside the limits. It does not make you all powerful.

[Chiryuu]

Originally posted by dermaniac:

Most published Dungeons and Dragons campaigns end around level 12-14. The reason is that beyond that characters simply become so powerful, that it doesn't fit into most stories.

Level 1-4 are local heroes that deal with local issues
Level 5-9 are regional heroes that deal with kingdom-scale issues
Level 10-14 are already world heroes, saving the world from a global threat
Level 15-20 are essentially demigods and often deal with issues involving multiple planes of existence

The "demigod" tier is often out of scope for most stories, so most D&D campaigns end before reaching level 15.

Why 12 as a level cap specifically? My guess is because full casters get a new spell level at level 13, so if they allowed level 13 there would be a whole new set of spells they would have to implement.

Aint this more of multiple plane situation than single plane?

[parent child bowl]

Originally posted by Dinvan:

You are more akin to super heroes, think doctor strange and the avengers rather than actual demi gods.

Akshually, the Avengers have a literal god in their ranks and I wouldn't consider Doctor Strange to be less than a demi god with the shenanigans he can pull of. And that's before he becomes a God of Magic.

[Aria Athena]

Blame WotC and their 5e design.

[Dinvan]

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

Originally posted by Dinvan:

You are more akin to super heroes, think doctor strange and the avengers rather than actual demi gods.

Akshually, the Avengers have a literal god in their ranks and I wouldn't consider Doctor Strange to be less than a demi god with the shenanigans he can pull of. And that's before he becomes a God of Magic.

lol alright fair point, but you get my meaning, gods in D&D are just far more powerful than a level 20 party.

I get why people don't want to be that powerful, but I do. I am just thankful for the modding community who will allow me to do so.

[bami]

Originally posted by Luke Skywalker:

Originally posted by Qiox:

The company is richer now than ever before. When they were barely surviving they still never made a paid DLC.

Yet now that they are swimming in cash after 2 million early access sales of BG3, you think they are suddenly going to cut features so that they can put out a cash grab DLC? Really?

Try joining the real world instead of clinging to absurd delusions.

Yes. That's what I really think. This is how companies work. They exist to make money. Try joining the real world and getting a job. You would know this if you actually did any of these things.

Not every company wants money from their players, look at Hello Games (developers of No Man's Sky), they made so many expansions and all of them were free! I'm not saying Larian Studios gonna do the same, but who knows...

[Knightspace]

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

Blame WotC and their 5e design.

Can be said for half of the gameplay choices tbh