Baldur's Gate 3

Baldur's Gate 3

Statistiche:
companion's alignment ?
Hello,

Can you give me a companion's alignment list please ?
I'd like to make a good and evil party, and pick my class beetween the missing classes of the party.

I have found this list :
Lae’zel
Astarion
Wyll
Shadowheart
Gale
Karlach
Jaheira

thank you
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Messaggio originale di Greybishop:
From my experience:

Shadowheart - Lawful Neutral. She has a core set of rules she follows, and can be swayed good or evil.
Gale - Neutral Good. Does some stupid things, but overall doesn't seem to want to harm anyone or like it when you do.
Wyll - Chaotic Good. Was willing to do *anything* to save his people, including selling his soul.
Lae'zel - Lawful Evil. Also has a core set of rules, which start with all Gith are better than YOU.
Karlach - Neutral Good. Doesn't care about the rules so much, especially if the rules harms/oppresses people.
Minthara - Lawful Evil. Another with a core set of rules, which start with Drow/The Absolute are above all.
Astarion - Neutral Evil. Bound to his nature as a vampire, can't really be "good" but can switch between lawful and chaotic, usually for his own benefit.
Halsin - Chaotic Neutral. Does what he can to keep the balance of nature but doesn't/can't understand why the arch-druid of a grove is needed around said grove.
Minsc - Chaotic Good. Doesn't care for laws/logic, especially if it gets in the way of buttkicking for goodness.
Jaheira - Neutral Good. Does what she can to do good, but has perhaps stretched herself too thin between all the different good she does.

I think you're spot on with your assessment.
Messaggio originale di Arcane:
Messaggio originale di Tony:
Hello,

Can you give me a companion's alignment list please ?
I'd like to make a good and evil party, and pick my class beetween the missing classes of the party.

I have found this list :
Lae’zel
Astarion
Wyll
Shadowheart
Gale
Karlach
Jaheira

thank you

Here is what I got from playing the beta:

Lae’zel - Neutral/Evil
Astarion - Evil
Wyll - Good
Shadowheart - Good
Gale - Good
Karlach - Good/Neutral probably?
Jaheira - ??

Jaheira was true neutral in BG1/2 I'd say Karlach is chaotic good.
From my (heavily AD&D influenced) POV:

Disclaimer:
Good-Neutral-Evil - How willing am I to hurt others who don't deserve it, in order to further my agenda/interests.
Lawful-Neutral-Chaotic - How much do I feel bound to specific principles that guide my behavior and the way I judge actions/situations/people.
Chaotic Evil - Is basically a sociopath. Generally an alignment only for monsters.
"True" Neutral - The guardians of not giving a crap.
Chaotic Neutral - The ultimate egotist/opportunist, doing what they want when they want, or just someone who is not in control of their own impulses.


likely alignment / potential alignment

Astarion - Lawful Evil / Chaotic Neutral
He shows a tendency for self-interest, yet has notions of loyalty and enjoys societies and the "way" they function. He doesn't struggle with being a Vampire, i.e. the need to kill. To me, it's unclear whether he refrains from hurting people simply because he's afraid of the consequences, or not.

Gale - Chaotic Good / Chaotic Neutral
Seems good-natured and well-meaning to others, while accepting the chaotic "rules" of magic. Looks like the kind of guy who wants to get along with everybody, but readily throws someone under the bus when it suits him, then finding some excuse to ease his conscience.

Karlach - Chaotic Good
A well-meaning soul that was forced to commit evil deeds to survive. As a former slave and a Tiefling, she's not likely to believe in the judgement and rule of others.

Lae’zel - Lawful Neutral
She's bound to the Githyanki Code of Honor. If that Code says that someone needs to go, so be it. She respects anyone she regards as a kindred spirit and looks down upon everyone else..

Minthara - Lawful Evil / Lawful Good
She's a girl on a mission. That mission involves death and destruction. However, she believes it's for the better of her group. Who are we to judge her? Most of the people will see her as evil, she and her pals regard her as a hero.

Shadowheart - Lawful Good / Lawful Neutral
As a cleric, she follows and upholds the rules of her "church" and faith. Even though her god is a bit ... evil, she's not malicious. Rather, she seems misguided and influenced by her faith's conflict with the "church" of Selune. Similar to Minthara, you have to ask yourself, in how far she recognizes her behavior as potentially "bad".

Wyll - Neutral Good
He's so wrapped up in doing good and vanquishing evil, that he sometimes gets ahead of himself and better judgement. It's not that he detests rules, it's just that he feels he knows better.

Jaheira - Neutral Good (based on BG1&2)
Has struggled with her True Neutral persona as a Harper druid, especially their tendency of not getting involved. Has a hard time to walk away from suffering. As a druid, she dislikes cultures/societies for their potential to harm others/outsiders and nature. On the other hand, she's not one of those eco-terrorist druids who destroy a village, because the lumberjacks could threaten a sacred orchard.

Minsk - Chaotic Good
Has been Chaotic Good since BG1. Will seek out and fight injustice wherever he expects it. When he does, he doesn't really think much about it.
Ultima modifica da slow_cheetah; 29 ago 2023, ore 8:46
Messaggio originale di Wolfgang421:
5e does away with alignments.

As someone who started playing AD&D in the fall of 1979, I slowly evolved my way of thinking about alignments.

My perspective on alignment has not changed since then, which is that alignments are broad termed and not narrowly termed.

For example, lawful good has always gotten a bad rap because most people never really took the time to think through what LG means.

Lawful good means believing in the need for laws for society to function; but those laws must be designed for the public good. It doesn't mean that the person is a 'Mister goody two shoes' type of person. The person in question may still have quirks that they still have that may make them less than lawful and good.

But so many people reads the alignments and believe that a person MUST stay within their parameters. No one can be always lawful good. and only psychopaths and remain neutral evil.

People are not like that. Nor should they be in a fantasy based world.
Messaggio originale di mikeddeacon:
Messaggio originale di Wolfgang421:
5e does away with alignments.

As someone who started playing AD&D in the fall of 1979, I slowly evolved my way of thinking about alignments.

My perspective on alignment has not changed since then, which is that alignments are broad termed and not narrowly termed.

For example, lawful good has always gotten a bad rap because most people never really took the time to think through what LG means.

Lawful good means believing in the need for laws for society to function; but those laws must be designed for the public good. It doesn't mean that the person is a 'Mister goody two shoes' type of person. The person in question may still have quirks that they still have that may make them less than lawful and good.

But so many people reads the alignments and believe that a person MUST stay within their parameters. No one can be always lawful good. and only psychopaths and remain neutral evil.

People are not like that. Nor should they be in a fantasy based world.
I want what you know. It's taking me a long time to accept that.

If I'm understanding you view. You're accepting of everyone and believe they can change to adapt to any environment they're placed in.

If that's what you mean, I completely disagree with this view. Show me 10 children who changed their attitude towards people and I'll show you 10 elderly who won't. I like the Matrix's way in how they explained that.


After Morpheus tells Neo that human's are grown and harvested like batteries. Neo throws up and passes out. When he comes to, this is the conversation:
Messaggio originale di Morpheus:
"we have a rule, we never free a mind once it's reached a certain age. it's dangerous, the mind has trouble letting go. i've seen it before and i'm sorry."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZnKJaEbZjo




Is that not believable enough? Ok then, tell me this. Why does Astorian stop talking to me when I do good? He dislikes it when I do good things. He becomes one of the most boring companion I've seen in a video game if you don't go out of your way todo evil things to entertain him. I've even heard if a companion's morale with you drops too low, they'll get up and leave. Also, in this very thread another explained how Astarion is a flip flopper between good and evil, as are some other companions. What's the issue with that?

It means in a matter of a week or so, you turned someone that likely had a horrible childhood or they were raised to be Evil for decades and in a week you flipped them. That if you were playing a Lawful Good Paladin and were jumped by the Evil Astarion, a character intent on harming another to feel he's in control. A vampire that jokes about killing innocents and is not in control of his hunger that can't be sated. This is addictive behavior and he's acting like a crack head, except he's not stealing, he's thinking about murder and demonstrated to me that he doesn't care about others, only himself.

How is the lawful good paladin to act after being jumped by Astarian with a knife to their own throat? By the Nine Hells. Evil can't be trusted.
I'm interested in who these characters are. Not who I can change them to be. Change takes time and as mentioned earlier, it's boring.

I ask, what's the best experience you can have with each companion? That's complementing their personality.

For that reason, I did what I could to create 3 playthroughs. I do feel a Neutral playthrough first is probably for the best, to learn the mechanics, plus being Neutral you can make justifications for stealing from others. If you're Good, you shouldn't be stealing from dead people. Maybe you can justify stealing within a Good Party. I'd like to hear it. A Neutral character may justify stealing from the rich or dead people. Here is my definition of Good & Evil:

  • Good means a lack of self-centeredness, while evil means an inability to empathize with others.
  • Although those with a psychopathic personality appear to be unable to develop empathy, most people can cultivate it.
  • One way to view goodness is that it expresses something fundamental about human nature, while evil represents an aberration from it.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-darkness/201308/the-real-meaning-good-and-evil

Put simply. Good means empathy for others. Evil means lack of empathy for others. Neutral finds a balance between the two.


Chaotic Neutral
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbwLC3Yr8vA
Messaggio originale di Blitz4:
Collected Alignments as promised:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1114984746951376946/1153129209850494996/bg3-alignment.png

ability scores src: https://teambrg.com/baldurs-gate-3

3 Parties: Neutral. Good. Evil.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1114984746951376946/1153133628340064317/aligned-party.png

Thief, Paladin, Warlock means that's where I add my character.

If you try this yourself. You'll see a lack of diversity in characters.
5E doesn't have alignments anymore making the choices here quite subjective.

As far as I see it when only considering how the characters start off at the beginning of the game:

Lae’zel - Lawful Evil
Astarion - Chaotic Evil
Wyll - Lawful Good / Neutral Good.
Shadowheart - Neutral / Lawful Neutral.
Gale - Chaotic Neutral
Karlach - Good or Chaotic Good.
Jaheira - (According to BG1/BG2 Neutral), in BG3 I'd argue she's pretty much Neutral Good.
Ultima modifica da DaniTheHero; 17 set 2023, ore 18:30
The thing is morality is subjective so you have to first establish who's morals we are using as a base to decide whats good or evil. Even on something like the act of theft it sounds bad to steal right? yet there are many on this forum who will defend the idea that theft isnt actually a big deal at all and that those that were stolen from can only be upset with being robbed if they are also poor enough or have a good enough sob story.
Messaggio originale di Philogosten:
The thing is morality is subjective so you have to first establish who's morals we are using as a base to decide whats good or evil. Even on something like the act of theft it sounds bad to steal right? yet there are many on this forum who will defend the idea that theft isnt actually a big deal at all and that those that were stolen from can only be upset with being robbed if they are also poor enough or have a good enough sob story.
You're right.

For morality. I like the idea:
  • Good means empathy for others. Freewill limited to giving pleasure and not causing pain to others.
  • Evil means lack of empathy for others. Freewill limited to giving pleasure and not causing pain to self.
  • Neutral finds a balance between the two. Freewill limited to not changing the freewill of others. (Bruce Almighty)

It's an idea, not a creeto or set in stone. Creatures could change at any moment.


Lawful or Lawless is far easier to understand. How likely is that creature willing to follow the laws in the lands they walk upon. That depends on the intelligence of the creature as well.


Who has the right to define morality?
Only gods do.
Yet any creature has the power to change at any time.
I define that as, each creature is the god of their world. The world that they experience.
(when worlds collide..lol)

Yet a wolf sees prey as prey. Wolves have an INT of 3. By nature, wolves are Neutral Evil creatures. Their low INT prevents them from changing to one that follows the laws of the lands or from caring for other creatures. Yet wolves won't attack other wolves, they hunt in packs. Wolves show remorse when another wolf dies. Tigers, INT 3, on the other hand are Chaotic Evil. They will eat their own young if they grow hungry.

Imp INT 11, is Lawful Evil. I believe it takes some form of intelligence to comprehend and follow law.

As a neat example, the Outer Planes. These are the planes that gods shape. Each of the planes has an alignment. Souls that die move from the Material world into the Astral Plane where they're then directed to the proper plane that have other souls that share their alignment, other souls they would "get along with most". This is a decision made by Kelemvor. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Kelemvor

Picture of the planes using the Great Wheel cosmology:
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/a/a2/Planes-5e.jpg
Ultima modifica da Blitz4; 18 set 2023, ore 0:55
Threads like these are exactly the reason why alignment system is nonsense for regular playable races.
They don't have alignment but imo merely based on the approvals and decisions they make or suggest..

Wyll, Jaheira are pretty much Lawful Neutral
Minsc is Chaotic Neutral
Karlach, Shadowheart would be Neutral Good
Gale, Halsin, Minthara would be Lawful Evil
Laezel, Asterion Neutral Evil

Halsin makes some questionable degen moves and pretty much a prick, Gale is just Gale, Laezel and Asterion pretty much agree on most things if it is a means to an end even if their personalities aren't alike, throughout the game the characters might sway into other alignments based on the player's decisions.
Ultima modifica da Ranpo; 18 set 2023, ore 1:10
Messaggio originale di Dank Sidious:
Threads like these are exactly the reason why alignment system is nonsense for regular playable races.
Just remember that goblins are born chaotic evil, so there is zero guilt for killing goblin children.
Messaggio originale di GRVTSFat Bastard:
Messaggio originale di Dank Sidious:
Threads like these are exactly the reason why alignment system is nonsense for regular playable races.
Just remember that goblins are born chaotic evil, so there is zero guilt for killing goblin children.

They aren't playable races anyway outside of weird exceptions. Deekin the Kobold Bard was a pretty based character.
Ultima modifica da Dank Sidious; 18 set 2023, ore 1:10
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Data di pubblicazione: 31 lug 2023, ore 22:34
Messaggi: 48