Are rangers just better fighters?

[Your memes end here]

Beast master ranger can just ignore dex and use knight for heavy armor and pick a weapon speciality

they miss out on battlemaster/champion skills but get 3 characters (familiar and companion they can buff to have 16 AC as well as a butt ton of hp and damage)

why would anyone play a straight fighter?

[Indure]

Originally posted by TheShark:

Originally posted by Ephemerant:

That's *without* a subclass. Put in Champion or Battlemaster, and there's no shot a Beast master Ranger is out dpsing a Fighter.

You have two pets with 16 AC (which is considered low btw), with irrelevant attacks.

A level 12 Champion Fighter can have 6 attacks, a crit range of 19-20, and +10 damage if they're Great Weapon Master, and a 7th attack with Bonus Action if they Crit.

Rangers cap at two attacks, three if they're dual wielding or also GWM, but that's crit depending. Your pets are giving the extra four/five attacks? Nah.

6 Attacks... with action surge? Isn't that 1x per long rest?

Short rest on action surge.

[Indure]

Originally posted by deccris22:

No, its quite the opposite. Fight does Rangers job better, in the table top setting. Larian buffed some of the rangers gimmicks. Ranger pet will now scale and they showed an armored bear. So Beast Master may be somewhat useful. Spell, you'll be running hunters mark and that is it. Eldritch Knight is the better martial caster between the two. I can run through all the numbers if you want, but in the end a level 12 fighter will outpace a level 12 ranger in almost all aspects.

Can you explain your thoughts on EK spells vs Rangers at level 12? Just the raw number of 10 spell slots and 3rd level spells vs EKs 7 spell slots and only 2nd level spells seems to favor rangers immensely.

We also can already judge 90% of a EKs spell list in early access and there isn't much to write home about.

[🫐ĿᐄṾᐄṆↁ3☈🫐]

I remember when I started playing DnD 25 years ago and thought the Ranger was cool. Turns out it's one of the worst classes in the game tbh. Your Drizzt Do'Urden fantasies are just that, fantasies.

[Lily]

Yeah, rangers are stronger. This has been established for a while in D&D among optimizers for a long time now. If you take levels in fighter you normally take 2 maybe 3. Damage isn't the only metric you should look at either, which Ranger will surpass fighter regardless at level 9. Conjure animals says hello.

That isn't to say Fighter is bad, its not. Battlemaster is pretty good. But some of the benefits it gives are somewhat outclassed by the elemental arrows available in the game. Which Anyone can use. In early access the Elemental arrows don't work with extra attack, maneuvers, or sneak attack but hopefully that changes.

If you're not using Conjure animals fighter eventually does outclass Ranger at level 11 in terms of Damage. But by then Ranger has so much better utility that if you're optimizing You're better off running ranger. Currently in Early access beastmaster Ranger is one of the strongest classes. Infinite use of web is kinda bonkers.

[lefty1117]

rogue is the best fighter in the game especially Thief specialization

[Ephemerant]

Originally posted by TheShark:

Originally posted by Ephemerant:

That's *without* a subclass. Put in Champion or Battlemaster, and there's no shot a Beast master Ranger is out dpsing a Fighter.

You have two pets with 16 AC (which is considered low btw), with irrelevant attacks.

A level 12 Champion Fighter can have 6 attacks, a crit range of 19-20, and +10 damage if they're Great Weapon Master, and a 7th attack with Bonus Action if they Crit.

Rangers cap at two attacks, three if they're dual wielding or also GWM, but that's crit depending. Your pets are giving the extra four/five attacks? Nah.

6 Attacks... with action surge? Isn't that 1x per long rest?

Short or Long. So about 3x per "day" in the game. Considering how the resting mechanic is only reliant on supplies, you'd have to go out of your way to not have Action Surge available.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Ephemerant:

Originally posted by TheShark:

6 Attacks... with action surge? Isn't that 1x per long rest?

Short or Long. So about 3x per "day" in the game. Considering how the resting mechanic is only reliant on supplies, you'd have to go out of your way to not have Action Surge available.

way way out of your way.....

[Amix]

Originally posted by dolby:

Originally posted by Indure:

All martial classes except for rogue get 2 attacks at level 5, so they all multi-hit.

Shove is a bonus action so they all push.

Trip is a somewhat a unique feature, but unless they change it on release to reflect 5e, currently it gives no real benefit beyond automatic dex save fails. In fact, it hurts your range teammate's hit chance on prone targets. Also the ranger's bird and familiar bird can spam blind which nets similar results.

Disarm can also be good, but rangers bear can spam it every turn at level 5.

Frighten is mediocre but unique giving "A frightened creature has disadvantage on Ability Checks and Attack rolls while the source of its fear is within line of sight. The creature can't willingly move closer to the source of its fear." So you have that working for you.

yeah his got no clue what his talking about not to mention you can just muticlass..

Still salty & bad at grammar! lol
I completed Larian games without taking single hit & damage. I can write further but I simply do not want to give you more insight.
@Indure Everyone who is familiar with D&D knows that Ranger is a niche class. Fighters (Battlemaster subclass) are special because they defy action economy. They can also status lock multiple enemies.

[Zaris]

Just a quick comparison between the 4 fighter classes to get a feeling for their dmg potential (at lvl12 = BG3 max, 20 main attribute, magical +2 weapons):

fighter:
- attacks: 3, 6 hasted, 9 action surge
- dmg: greatsword 2d6+2+5 str = 14
- battlemaster 4 dices each 1d8
- first round dmg burst: 4 attacks with battlemaster attacks * 18,5 dmg + 5 normal attacks * 14 dmg = 144 dmg
- next rounds 6 attacks * 14 = 84 dmg

paladin:
- attacks: 2, 4 hasted
- dmg: greatsword 2d6+2+5 str + 1d8 improved smite = 18,5
- smite 2d8 - 4d8 -> 9 - 18, 3x rank 3 spell slots @12
- first round dmg burst: 3 attacks * 36,5 + 32 = 68,5
- next rounds (without smite) 4 attacks * 18,5 = 74 dmg

barbarian:
- attacks: 2, 4 hasted
- dmg: greatsword 2d6+2+5 str + 3 rage (lvl9) = 17
- every round: 4 attacks * 17 = 68

ranger (str, 2h):
- attacks: 2, 4 hasted
- dmg: greatsword 2d6+2+5 str + 1d6 mark = 17,5
- every round: 4 attacks * 17,5 = 70

ranger (str, dual wield shortsword):
- attacks: 3, 5 hasted
- dmg: shortsword 1d6+2+5 dex + 1d6 mark = 14
- every round: 5 attacks * 14 = 70

ranger (str, duelling rapier):
- attacks: 2, 4 hasted
- dmg: rapier 1d8+2+5 dex + 1d6 mark + 2 duell feat = 17
- every round: 4 attacks * 17 = 68

rogue
- attacks: 1, 2 hasted (most likely used on fighter class instead rogue)
- dmg: rapier 1d8+2+5dex = 11,5
- sneak dmg 6x6 = 21
- every round: sneak attack 32,5
-> if melee / ranged sneak attack works in one round it should be possible to use both : 65 dmg

warlock
- attacks: 1
- dmg: eldritch blast 3 * (1d10+5 cha + 1d6 hex) = 3* 14 = 42
-----------------------------
- In general the sustained dmg output of these 4 classes is nearly the same. The fighter has the highest burst and sustained dmg output.
- The barbarian has indirect most likely a higher sustained dmg output because of advantage on every hit especially if your hit chance is ~60-70% but the higher your hit chance becomes (equip / buffs like bless) the closer the dmg becomes again.
- ranger with greatsword / rapier is ok but with dual wield you must keep in mind to take the bonus action to change hunters mark on the targets and losing the 5th attack = lower dmg in real combat

[Ephemerant]

Originally posted by Zaris:

Just a quick comparison between the 4 fighter classes to get a feeling for their dmg potential (at lvl12 = BG3 max, 20 main attribute, magical +2 weapons):

fighter:
- attacks: 3, 6 hasted, 9 action surge
- dmg: greatsword 2d6+2+5 str = 14
- battlemaster 4 dices each 1d8
- first round dmg burst: 4 attacks with battlemaster attacks * 18,5 dmg + 5 normal attacks * 14 dmg = 144 dmg
- next rounds 6 attacks * 14 = 84 dmg

paladin:
- attacks: 2, 4 hasted
- dmg: greatsword 2d6+2+5 str + 1d8 improved smite = 18,5
- smite 2d8 - 4d8 -> 9 - 18, 3x rank 3 spell slots @12
- first round dmg burst: 3 attacks * 36,5 + 32 = 68,5
- next rounds (without smite) 4 attacks * 18,5 = 74 dmg

barbarian:
- attacks: 2, 4 hasted
- dmg: greatsword 2d6+2+5 str + 3 rage (lvl9) = 17
- every round: 4 attacks * 17 = 68

ranger (str, 2h):
- attacks: 2, 4 hasted
- dmg: greatsword 2d6+2+5 str + 1d6 mark = 17,5
- every round: 4 attacks * 17,5 = 70

ranger (str, dual wield shortsword):
- attacks: 3, 5 hasted
- dmg: shortsword 1d6+2+5 dex + 1d6 mark = 14
- every round: 5 attacks * 14 = 70

ranger (str, duelling rapier):
- attacks: 2, 4 hasted
- dmg: rapier 1d8+2+5 dex + 1d6 mark + 2 duell feat = 17
- every round: 4 attacks * 17 = 68

rogue
- attacks: 1, 2 hasted (most likely used on fighter class instead rogue)
- dmg: rapier 1d8+2+5dex = 11,5
- sneak dmg 6x6 = 21
- every round: sneak attack 32,5
-> if melee / ranged sneak attack works in one round it should be possible to use both : 65 dmg

warlock
- attacks: 1
- dmg: eldritch blast 3 * (1d10+5 cha + 1d6 hex) = 3* 14 = 42
-----------------------------
- In general the sustained dmg output of these 4 classes is nearly the same. The fighter has the highest burst and sustained dmg output.
- The barbarian has indirect most likely a higher sustained dmg output because of advantage on every hit especially if your hit chance is ~60-70% but the higher your hit chance becomes (equip / buffs like bless) the closer the dmg becomes again.
- ranger with greatsword / rapier is ok but with dual wield you must keep in mind to take the bonus action to change hunters mark on the targets and losing the 5th attack = lower dmg in real combat

I wonder if Haste letting you use your Extra Attacks with the Hastened Action is going to survive full release.

[super_jqp]

The question is why would anyone play a martial class, at all.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Amix:

Originally posted by dolby:

yeah his got no clue what his talking about not to mention you can just muticlass..

Still salty & bad at grammar! lol
I completed Larian games without taking single hit & damage. I can write further but I simply do not want to give you more insight.
@Indure Everyone who is familiar with D&D knows that Ranger is a niche class. Fighters (Battlemaster subclass) are special because they defy action economy. They can also status lock multiple enemies.

No one gives a rats ass what you did or what you do lol get over your butt already.

The game is beyond easy so bragging about it doesn't mean as much as you think it does. Not that it means much in the first place cos it's a game.

Edit: OW, and you talking about grammer is a joke cos we all know why your youtube videos are without narration and mute..

[Farsha]

Originally posted by lefty1117:

rogue is the best fighter in the game especially Thief specialization

No rogues actually has the lowest consistent dps from all martial classes in 5e.
Thief in bg3 is better than in 5e.
But they still won’t do as much dmg as a fighter or a zerker barb.
But they do make up for it out of combat.

[Amix]

Originally posted by dolby:

Originally posted by Amix:

Still salty & bad at grammar! lol
I completed Larian games without taking single hit & damage. I can write further but I simply do not want to give you more insight.
@Indure Everyone who is familiar with D&D knows that Ranger is a niche class. Fighters (Battlemaster subclass) are special because they defy action economy. They can also status lock multiple enemies.

No one gives a rats ass what you did or what you do lol get over your butt already.

The game is beyond easy so bragging about it doesn't mean as much as you think it does. Not that it means much in the first place cos it's a game.

Edit: OW, and you talking about grammer is a joke cos we all know why your youtube videos are without narration and mute..

Judging from your reply, you are still salty and angry. lol
It is okay to make grammatical mistakes but your posts give headache. Non one gives... Yes, you certainly do otherwise you would not be replying.
People are doing calculations and writing theoretical (hypothetical) stuff while I am giving them video as a proof. Which one is better? Use your common sense if you have any.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Farsha:

Originally posted by lefty1117:

rogue is the best fighter in the game especially Thief specialization

No rogues actually has the lowest consistent dps from all martial classes in 5e.
Thief in bg3 is better than in 5e.
But they still won’t do as much dmg as a fighter or a zerker barb.
But they do make up for it out of combat.

you can sneak attack twice per round so that's not that bad, cos in bg 3 we have ways to make sure those hits are auto crits..