Why a level cap of 12 instead of 20?

[ByucknahTheRed]

Just curious, anyone know if they have given a reason for the level cap of 20 instead of 20? The only two things I can assume are either they plan to provide DLC/Expansion content after launch and want to have room for further progress -or- they feel incapable of balancing epic level characters, specifically casters, because lets be real... casters scale bonkers at higher level in 5th edition D&D. All D&D really.

I have googled "Why is Baulders Gate 3's Level Cap 12" but have found nothing on the why so I am curious if a reason has been stated.

[That Dodogama]

That's a good question. For as much content and playtime as it claims to have, capping it at just over half of a character's potential growth seems really weird.

[Wolfgang421]

Lots of speculation that it is to make room for DLC/expansion, but no confirmation. From what I have seen, 5e scales a bit quicker, with level 12 being around that level 15-17 point in 3.5. That said, I imagine there will be a mod release shortly after launch to enable higher level cap.

[zero]

long and short of it? most adventure paths/modules written for D&D tend to end at lvl 10ish.

not a fan of it personally, but it is what it is, a whole story can be wrapped up in 10 levels or so.

[Rusted Metal]

Balancing as well as the amount of content needed to get there in the first place.

Swen said that he would be talking to his team on a way to get to level 20.

But you have to keep in mind that leveling gets exponentially slower and at level 12 the game is already nearly a 100hrs long. not only that there are hundreds of permutations. and those permutations keep building and building. they have nearly reached 2 million.

It's just not feasible in terms of scope, since larian isn't a massive company making multiple games, they are making 1 game at a time rather then multiple meaning they can work on a game for extremely long while releasing others.

[Sima Marlin]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ByucknahTheRed:

Just curious, anyone know if they have given a reason for the level cap of 20 instead of 20? The only two things I can assume are either they plan to provide DLC/Expansion content after launch and want to have room for further progress -or- they feel incapable of balancing epic level characters, specifically casters, because lets be real... casters scale bonkers at higher level in 5th edition D&D. All D&D really.

I have googled "Why is Baulders Gate 3's Level Cap 12" but have found nothing on the why so I am curious if a reason has been stated.

Most DnD 5 ed campaigns scale to level 12. Balancing after that gets bit finiky.

+ they will do dlc, I presume perhaps to level 16 first then 16 to 20 with possible " advance past mortal means" ie Throne of ball theme from original bg 2.


Edit : Example, solasta also 5 ed game, made main campaign up to 12, expansion 12-16. It's kinda unwritten rule now for 5 ed to make campaigns up to level 12

[1337_h4x0r_xXx_deathlord666_xXx]

There somewhere is a pretty old interview from like 3 years ago or something like that, where they talk about it.
The jist of it is a) making enough content, as levelling slows down more and more and b) how do you implement things like wish or planar travel etc. They don't just wanna have statbloat, like those games that implemented lvl20 before, but try to implement things like these in a meaningful manner....
probably butchered that reasoning, but hey, it's 4am for me ;P

[Bilbo's Bath & Shire Gel]

Higher than 15 is practically a demi-god. Hard to balance on it's own and most abilities at that level can be story-breaking without a good DM who can think on their feet.
A good example is the spell Wish.

[xposethedarkside]

I don't actually think casters scale as out of control now as they did back in the day, not even close really.

Here's a a level 20 wizard in 5e
(Level 1 to level 9)
C:5/4/3/3/3/3/2/2/1/1

Here's a level 20 AD&D wizard
5/5/5/5/5/4/3/3/2

I mean spell for spell, the AD&D wizard would mop the 5e wizard.

[Sima Marlin]

Początkowo opublikowane przez xposethedarkside:

I don't actually think casters scale as out of control now as they did back in the day, not even close really.

Here's a a level 20 wizard in 5e
(Level 1 to level 9)
C:5/4/3/3/3/3/2/2/1/1

Here's a level 20 AD&D wizard
5/5/5/5/5/4/3/3/2

I mean spell for spell, the AD&D wizard would mop the 5e wizard.

Not to mention 2,2.5 and 3, 3,5 got more spell casts from Int, now they just get more spells memorized.

I always thought dnd 5 ed wizards are weak, but then again I made lot of cheezy 3.5 one man army summoner builds....

Edit : And my bg 2 wizard was just plain cheating - kept casting limited wish and wish to get spells back mid combat ^^

[zero]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Sima Marlin:

Początkowo opublikowane przez xposethedarkside:

I don't actually think casters scale as out of control now as they did back in the day, not even close really.

Here's a a level 20 wizard in 5e
(Level 1 to level 9)
C:5/4/3/3/3/3/2/2/1/1

Here's a level 20 AD&D wizard
5/5/5/5/5/4/3/3/2

I mean spell for spell, the AD&D wizard would mop the 5e wizard.

Not to mention 2,2.5 and 3, 3,5 got more spell casts from Int, now they just get more spells memorized.

I always thought dnd 5 ed wizards are weak, but then again I made lot of cheezy 3.5 one man army summoner builds....

they're weak compared to older editions but in their own ruleset they're still the powerhouse of powerhouse like they always tend to be

[GrimAtrament]

because wotc are to scared to use all 20 levels they made despite having plenty of creatures in this game that could be a threat all the way up to level 20 (literally could use the elder brain dragon.)

[trippsyc]

D&D wise level 20 usually means you are world renowned, have your own temples/conclaves, and are actively searching or on the path to quasi/demi godhood...or wizard who thinks becoming a lich is better for their health.

[xposethedarkside]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Sima Marlin:

Początkowo opublikowane przez xposethedarkside:

I don't actually think casters scale as out of control now as they did back in the day, not even close really.

Here's a a level 20 wizard in 5e
(Level 1 to level 9)
C:5/4/3/3/3/3/2/2/1/1

Here's a level 20 AD&D wizard
5/5/5/5/5/4/3/3/2

I mean spell for spell, the AD&D wizard would mop the 5e wizard.

Not to mention 2,2.5 and 3, 3,5 got more spell casts from Int, now they just get more spells memorized.

I always thought dnd 5 ed wizards are weak, but then again I made lot of cheezy 3.5 one man army summoner builds....

Very true, but there was a trade off in the early game. We didn't have cantrips(5e cantrips are great when comparing them to earlier level 0 spells) 1d4 instead of 1d6 for hit die. Those early levels were always one hit away from death. And we often had nothing but a sling to defend ourselves once the magic was used up.
The reward was that if we survived, the great power lay ahead.
I do kind of miss that, but I also understand 5e's approach. Much better survivability in the early levels in exchange for not running away with the game in the later levels.

[zero]

Początkowo opublikowane przez trippsyc:

D&D wise level 20 usually means you are world renowned, have your own temples/conclaves, and are actively searching or on the path to quasi/demi godhood...or wizard who thinks becoming a lich is better for their health.

becoming a lich is great for your health, until it isn't.

[Sima Marlin]

Początkowo opublikowane przez trippsyc:

D&D wise level 20 usually means you are world renowned, have your own temples/conclaves, and are actively searching or on the path to quasi/demi godhood...or wizard who thinks becoming a lich is better for their health.

Yes, in a world where temples dominate proper health care, the poor poor wizards only affordable long term health care plan is to turn in to a Lich ^^