I still dont get it why level cap is 12 for such a massive game?

[Deviant]

like this game surely is much better in scale than pillars of eternity 2 no? there was level 20 max i didnt see anything bad about having level 20 it worked smoothly so how can a more massive game with more content have lower level cap? it will feel bad if you get level 12 pretty fast in this game and then after that i feel like i wont progress becuz im max level when i reach max level in any game and you still continue to do content it just feels like you arent progressing

[EricHVela]

Larian decided 12. What we do with it beyond that is on us. Do they need to explain it? Nope. If we don't like it, we don't play. Simple.

There are plenty of games that focus on getting players to the maximum level and usually by grinding. This isn't one of them.

[SpaceNvader]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย MarkFranz:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย everybe2:

Your brain just thinks that less levels is less.

It is, tho? 12 is less than 20 for example.

And the CR of the encounters is scaled down to match. Do you understand proportions and ratios?

[Grave]

Guess I'll have to rethink this 11fighter/5rogue/2barb/1ranger build I have.

[echoes222]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย everybe2:

Your brain just thinks that less levels is less.

because it is...?

[Viper]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Deviant:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Maronchan:

Use mods (plenty of level/skills/feats mods out there already). Problem solved.

no it isnt problem solved becuz if they made the base game balanced around level 12 if im gonna use mods wich gives me level 20 max it will clearly be broken

A mod like that probably could not happen. I doubt you can mod in all the missing spells, skills and abilities. This is not skyrim.

[Heu, Iterum Id Feci]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Viper:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Deviant:

no it isnt problem solved becuz if they made the base game balanced around level 12 if im gonna use mods wich gives me level 20 max it will clearly be broken

A mod like that probably could not happen. I doubt you can mod in all the missing spells, skills and abilities. This is not skyrim.

Except mods for pretty much all of that are already available for the EA version ;P

[Viper]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Dαятн Wαfflεmαncεя:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Viper:

A mod like that probably could not happen. I doubt you can mod in all the missing spells, skills and abilities. This is not skyrim.

Except mods for pretty much all of that are already available for the EA version ;P

And do this why exactly it doesn't add any more content, areas, story or encounters...

[Riverdusk]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย MarkFranz:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย everybe2:

Your brain just thinks that less levels is less.

It is, tho? 12 is less than 20 for example.

Put it this way, would you rather have 20 nickles or 12 quarters? 20 is better right? How much power is in each level is an artificial construct dependent upon the game system. Level 12 in D&D could easily be more powerful than level 100 in some other system.

Most games have gone to more but less impactful levels though because level ups make the player feel good and do give a sense of progress more often. It can also make it a bit easier to fine tune encounters (to a point). But in the end it doesn't really make that much of a difference.

[Falkentyne]

We didn't get all of the spells and feats in BG2/IWD2, and many of the high level spells we got were changed or drastically different from the P&P versions. Even at start, there were changes--Paladins not having permanent protection from evil, Chant not stacking with Bless, Prayer, added in a mod, not stacking (I looked in nearinfinity a long time ago, was able to fix this (with some bugs) after some SPL table edits, and many other "I win" spells greatly nerfed or not even available. A large amount of D&D spells do not transition very well to computer game form.

And remember BG1 and BG2 were NOT the same game. BG2 was a sequel to BG1, IIRC, you started at level 8 in BG2 if you imported your BG1 character (been awhile, I forgot). So all this nonsensical talk about "not being able to reach god level proportions in ONE game set 100 years in the future is just completely silly and borderline trolling.

[Viper]

A level up in D&D fills great. Because they are few and far between .Much more of a sense of accomplishment than a game like Skyrim or Diablo. That feels like nothing. A major event in this game.

[Morte-360]

Likely because they felt 1-12 was enough for the story they want the game to be about. You could do a game where the levels are 1-5, 1-20 or 10-20 it just depends on what you actually want to happen in the game. If the party isn't supposed to be taking down something of similar power to things like krakens, empyreans, demon lords, solars, archfey and the like there isn't a point to going to 20. Especially with how powerful some high level spells are and the work involved in adding it all.

While I'd like more levels considering the emphasis on mind flayers it's not surprising 12 is where it caps. A level 20 party is far beyond Illithids.

I don't really think there's much more behind the decision than they consider that level range enough to tell the story they want.

[LockedandFiring]

Because level 20 is like a multi year long game and it's like the strength of a Demi-God. To put it as an example, at level 20 Druids basically become immortal.

[Sima Marlin]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Deviant:

like this game surely is much better in scale than pillars of eternity 2 no? there was level 20 max i didnt see anything bad about having level 20 it worked smoothly so how can a more massive game with more content have lower level cap? it will feel bad if you get level 12 pretty fast in this game and then after that i feel like i wont progress becuz im max level when i reach max level in any game and you still continue to do content it just feels like you arent progressing

I can see few reasons for it.

1'st they wanted it to be real campaing like in tapletop, it can take hundrates of hours to get to level 10 +

Good example is critical role season 3. At episode 65 the party is at level 10, this is after 65 four hour episodes of campaign game play. ( 260 ish hours).

In cases like that, if it doesn't feel too artificially slowed down, it can work rather nicely.


Second would be it allows easy way to do expansion, Baldursgate 2 didn't really climax till throne of bhall expansion, as an example. Leaving campaign to level 12 ( common in most modules for 5 ed), is a great spot to be at for future expansions. ( Solasta, another 5 ed game also left main campaign to be level capped at 12, the expansion was capped at 16, I have a hunch bg 3 will have two expansions, one to 16 ish or bit over, and another to 20 and possible err higher tiers due *cough* history of the series *cough*).


Third reason is .. this is bit of a known secret in 5 ed community : It gets wee bit tricky to design balanced encounters past level 12 in 5 ed, without making things bullet sponges. It's possible they just need more time / tests to go past that.

[spidergoat]

You are correct OP, DnD rules can be harder to level than the modern MMO\RPG's you may be used to. BG1 was 1 to 6, BG2 levels were 7 to 21, Throne of Bhaal expanded to level 40. Larian may adjust post launch. I would expect a DLC later that goes up from 12 to probably something in the low 20's, and after a few DLC rounds, probably level 40 or so, followed by a full-blown sequel. Hopefully. DnD 5e DM's Guide has levels and associated experience tables, I haven't checked lately. Post-launch we will probably get numbers rather quickly on Larian's exp system and if the two are the same or Larian adjusted.

[SpaceNvader]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย spidergoat:

You are correct OP, DnD rules can be harder to level than the modern MMO\RPG's you may be used to. BG1 was 1 to 6, BG2 levels were 7 to 21, Throne of Bhaal expanded to level 40. Larian may adjust post launch. I would expect a DLC later that goes up from 12 to probably something in the low 20's, and after a few DLC rounds, probably level 40 or so, followed by a full-blown sequel. Hopefully. DnD 5e DM's Guide has levels and associated experience tables, I haven't checked lately. Post-launch we will probably get numbers rather quickly on Larian's exp system and if the two are the same or Larian adjusted.

Leveling in this game will closer to OG Everquest than WoW in MMORPG terms.