Multi-Class, or sub-class

[pahrias]

Do we know if multi classing will be a thing, or is each class going to have multiple "sub" classes that change the class in small ways, like the Arcane Trickster giving the thief class access to magic?

I think there could be benefits to both methods, but I would prefer the freedom of choice to be able to choose a specific class to branch into. For example, having a fighter/illusionist. Or a Rouge/Ranger. I could even see a method that would have both systems so you could branch into a second full class, but in that secondary full class, also branch into its sub-class.

Or, is multi-class another thing that the DnD rule set is moving away from?

[Zabu]

Multi-classing should be doable but we havent seen or heard any of it yet. Characters have specializations aswell - i advice you to read up on the 5e rules

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Both.

Every time you gain a level, you can put it into any class you want to (although I'm not sure if BG3 will have a limit on how many classes you can take).

When you reach a certain level in a specific class (typically level 3, but some classes at level 1 or 2) you choose a subclass for it. You choose a subclass for every class you reach the appropriate level for.

Example: Clerics choose their subclass at level 1, Wizards choose at level 2, and Rogues at level 3.

A sixth level character with 1 level in Cleric, 2 levels in Wizard, and 3 levels in Rogue would have a total of 3 subclasses, one for each class.

While some features are tracked by overall character level, many more are tracked by your class and subclass levels.

[Nightmarian]

Subclasses are already in the game and we expect the rest from PHB to mostly be there at release.

Multiclassing hasn't been confirmed yet and we don't know if it'll be allowed. Maybe next week.

[Cirrus]

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

Subclasses are already in the game and we expect the rest from PHB to mostly be there at release.

Multiclassing hasn't been confirmed yet and we don't know if it'll be allowed. Maybe next week.

Multiclassing has been confirmed and even reconfirmed. I`ll just quote myself from earlier similar thread.

Originally posted by Cirrus:

Originally posted by dolby:

[
IF we aever get multiclassing i still have my doubts.

Larian and Sven has mentioned multiclassing many times. Few examples:
"The biggest challenge is just getting everything done," Vincke says. "There's just so much, it's a very large project with a lot of ambitions with an insane amount of permutations, and making sure that everybody will have fun, regardless if you're a cleric of Shar or a Barbarian-Paladin-Druid multi-class."
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/one-year-of-baldurs-gate-3-an-adventure-in-failure-and-success

Panel from hell 3: https://youtu.be/42S03eaRics?t=3157 where he reconfirms earlier promise multiclassing will be in game.

[Nightmarian]

Originally posted by Cirrus:

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

Subclasses are already in the game and we expect the rest from PHB to mostly be there at release.

Multiclassing hasn't been confirmed yet and we don't know if it'll be allowed. Maybe next week.

Multiclassing has been confirmed and even reconfirmed. I`ll just quote myself from earlier similar thread.

Originally posted by Cirrus:

Larian and Sven has mentioned multiclassing many times. Few examples:
"The biggest challenge is just getting everything done," Vincke says. "There's just so much, it's a very large project with a lot of ambitions with an insane amount of permutations, and making sure that everybody will have fun, regardless if you're a cleric of Shar or a Barbarian-Paladin-Druid multi-class."
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/one-year-of-baldurs-gate-3-an-adventure-in-failure-and-success

Panel from hell 3: https://youtu.be/42S03eaRics?t=3157 where he reconfirms earlier promise multiclassing will be in game.

And as has been pointed out countless times, a lot of these things were from long ago and have thus never been spoken about ever again. They also went from all PHB content to most. We still don't know if there are somehow magically going to be 2-3 more full companions (that aren't minsc or Jaheira) even though there should according to what Larian said about companions.

Until multiclass is directly confirmed to still be a feature a game--a feature we ourselves have never seen--we can't be sure. Your video alone is from 2 years(!) ago.

So until we get direct confirmation--something they refuse to give us even on their own OFFICIAL forums despite it being asked multiple times--I would highly suggest you keep your expectations firmly in check until the next panel from hell or possibly even release.

[Cirrus]

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

Originally posted by Cirrus:

Multiclassing has been confirmed and even reconfirmed. I`ll just quote myself from earlier similar thread.

And as has been pointed out countless times, a lot of these things were from long ago and have thus never been spoken about ever again. They also went from all PHB content to most. We still don't know if there are somehow magically going to be 2-3 more full companions (that aren't minsc or Jaheira) even though there should according to what Larian said about companions.

Until multiclass is directly confirmed to still be a feature a game--a feature we ourselves have never seen--we can't be sure. Your video alone is from 2 years(!) ago.

So until we get direct confirmation--something they refuse to give us even on their own OFFICIAL forums despite it being asked multiple times--I would highly suggest you keep your expectations firmly in check until the next panel from hell or possibly even release.

Still your claim was ”multiclassing has not been confirmed”. That is 100% false. Even if old one. But it is also as clear that not all things need or will be reconfirmed time and time again.

As for officiality of confirmation: Panel from hell video is official direct confirmation. As direct and official as it ever can be. Sven does not operate on any official forums. Video confirmation from him is abour 10x better than ANY forum confirmation.

Please do not spread lies about thing you do not know.

[Nightmarian]

Originally posted by Cirrus:

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

And as has been pointed out countless times, a lot of these things were from long ago and have thus never been spoken about ever again. They also went from all PHB content to most. We still don't know if there are somehow magically going to be 2-3 more full companions (that aren't minsc or Jaheira) even though there should according to what Larian said about companions.

Until multiclass is directly confirmed to still be a feature a game--a feature we ourselves have never seen--we can't be sure. Your video alone is from 2 years(!) ago.

So until we get direct confirmation--something they refuse to give us even on their own OFFICIAL forums despite it being asked multiple times--I would highly suggest you keep your expectations firmly in check until the next panel from hell or possibly even release.

Still your claim was ”multiclassing has not been confirmed”. That is 100% false. Even if old one. But it is also as clear that not all things need or will be reconfirmed time and time again.

As for officiality of confirmation: Panel from hell video is official direct confirmation. As direct and official as it ever can be. Sven does not operate on any official forums. Video confirmation from him is abour 10x better than ANY forum confirmation.

Please do not spread lies about thing you do not know.

Reread my post and slowly this time. An indirect offhand reference is not confirmation. Swen ALSO said we'd have everything from PHB and that was in the FAQ too, then they changed it to "most." When asked directly about many things, they also confirm it or deny it and have at several times even updated places where it said otherwise (stealthily in some cases, which has annoyed some people on the official forums.

They currently refuse to confirm multiclass in the game and have given no direct confirmation that it's there nor shown it to us, so we have no idea if it will make the final cut. And no, an offhand comment is not a better response than their FAQ or a forum post FROM THE STAFF on THEIR OWN FORUM.

Thus, allow me to roll my eyes and once again tell you to keep your expectations in check. You're obviously the one who doesn't know what they're talking about since you apparently know so little about the surrendering context that you're arbitrarily deciding a 2 year old offhand statement is confirmation when other, ALREADY confirmed stuff, has changed and is no longer the case.

So until Larian says multiclass is in or shows it to us, no, it's not directly confirmed and has never been. You can pretend whatever you want to pretend, but nothing's going to change that fact.

[Cirrus]

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

Originally posted by Cirrus:

Still your claim was ”multiclassing has not been confirmed”. That is 100% false. Even if old one. But it is also as clear that not all things need or will be reconfirmed time and time again.

As for officiality of confirmation: Panel from hell video is official direct confirmation. As direct and official as it ever can be. Sven does not operate on any official forums. Video confirmation from him is abour 10x better than ANY forum confirmation.

Please do not spread lies about thing you do not know.

Reread my post and slowly this time. An indirect offhand reference is not confirmation. Swen ALSO said we'd have everything from PHB and that was in the FAQ too, then they changed it to "most." When asked directly about many things, they also confirm it or deny it and have at several times even updated places where it said otherwise (stealthily in some cases, which has annoyed some people on the official forums.

They currently refuse to confirm multiclass in the game and have given no direct confirmation that it's there nor shown it to us, so we have no idea if it will make the final cut.

Thus, allow me to roll my eyes and once again tell you to keep your expectations in check. You're obviously the one who doesn't know what they're talking about since you apparently know so little about the surrendering context that you're arbitrarily deciding a 2 year old offhand statement is confirmation when other, ALREADY confirmed stuff, has changed and is no longer the case.

So until Larian says multiclass is in or shows it to us, no, it's not directly confirmed and has never been. You can pretend whatever you want to pretend, but nothing's going to change that fact.

My expetations have nothing the do with the facts at hand.

Your claims as follows:
"An indirect offhand reference" equals full lie garbage claim.
Fact:
We have direct verbal confirmation recorded on video. Saying "Multiclassing is something we have confirmed in past and so I again reconfirm it for you" There is absolutely nothing indirect in there.

Can things change? Yes. Does fact that almost anything can change in world take away previous confirmations? No.

Does your opinion that you think refusal to reconfirm it for fourth or fifth time today take away previous confirmations. No.

So fact remains. Multiclassing is confirmed by highest authority this game can have with any confirmations.

You can have opinions about age of confirmation etc, but fact that you lied in the first post does not change.

Please separate you opinions and facts from each other.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

So until we get direct confirmation--something they refuse to give us even on their own OFFICIAL forums despite it being asked multiple times--I would highly suggest you keep your expectations firmly in check until the next panel from hell or possibly even release.

Thats what i'm doing cos multiclassing is the first thing that gets cuts in rpgs if devs are in time crunch it always was that way, sorry to say.

Originally posted by Cirrus:

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

Reread my post and slowly this time. An indirect offhand reference is not confirmation. Swen ALSO said we'd have everything from PHB and that was in the FAQ too, then they changed it to "most." When asked directly about many things, they also confirm it or deny it and have at several times even updated places where it said otherwise (stealthily in some cases, which has annoyed some people on the official forums.

They currently refuse to confirm multiclass in the game and have given no direct confirmation that it's there nor shown it to us, so we have no idea if it will make the final cut.

Thus, allow me to roll my eyes and once again tell you to keep your expectations in check. You're obviously the one who doesn't know what they're talking about since you apparently know so little about the surrendering context that you're arbitrarily deciding a 2 year old offhand statement is confirmation when other, ALREADY confirmed stuff, has changed and is no longer the case.

So until Larian says multiclass is in or shows it to us, no, it's not directly confirmed and has never been. You can pretend whatever you want to pretend, but nothing's going to change that fact.

My expetations have nothing the do with the facts at hand.

Your claims as follows:
"An indirect offhand reference" equals full lie garbage claim.
Fact:
We have direct verbal confirmation recorded on video. Saying "Multiclassing is something we have confirmed in past and so I again reconfirm it for you" There is absolutely nothing indirect in there.

Can things change? Yes. Does fact that almost anything can change in world take away previous confirmations? No.

Does your opinion that you think refusal to reconfirm it for fourth or fifth time today take away previous confirmations. No.

So fact remains. Multiclassing is confirmed by highest authority this game can have with any confirmations.

Fact is that confirmation like that doesn't mean anything if is as old as that one. IF we get it next week sure your argument would be valid cos time frame is relevant, Heh...

As you said it yourself things can change you are literary trying to win in thread war on technicality. That doesn't mean anything to the subject at hand... i guess wining for the sake of argument alone is important.

Normally you confirm features in game with visuals like gameplay that would be a true confirmed feature and even those can get cut in super rare cases , if they are old like that video is.

So untill we get at least a screenshot or better yet a video of level up or something of the sort is unconfirmed for me at least. Or if they reconfirm it next week reason is cos we are geting close to release, again time freme matters.

[Popsicles]

I have a feeling they are going to say 'no multi-class' in this next PFH. It's 60 days from release and we haven't heard a single word about MC. They don't even have all the races, classes, actions, reactions, spells, sub classes that were promised... what makes you think they will get MC incorporated? Yes, they said they would... but time is running short.

[pahrias]

Ok so seems a bit divided. Not 100% confirmed, but good odds are what I am feeling from this.

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

Both.

Every time you gain a level, you can put it into any class you want to (although I'm not sure if BG3 will have a limit on how many classes you can take).

When you reach a certain level in a specific class (typically level 3, but some classes at level 1 or 2) you choose a subclass for it. You choose a subclass for every class you reach the appropriate level for.

Example: Clerics choose their subclass at level 1, Wizards choose at level 2, and Rogues at level 3.

A sixth level character with 1 level in Cleric, 2 levels in Wizard, and 3 levels in Rogue would have a total of 3 subclasses, one for each class.

While some features are tracked by overall character level, many more are tracked by your class and subclass levels.

Yeah that's what I was hoping, but with no UI element for it or any indication in character creator, I had to ask.
That would beg the questions then, of compatibility, what classes either shouldnt or cannot mix, and what classes would benefit most from multi-classing.
I feel Fighter/Wizard would be a good one, and is my usual preference in any game with a magic system. But it would seem a little redundant for say Wizard/Sorcerer.

A Wizard/Rouge would be another obvious one. A thief would benefit massively from illusion or telekinesis. And I suppose depending on Level cap in full release, most classes would benefit from having cleric, given the limited spells and healing.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Balltin:

I have a feeling they are going to say 'no multi-class' in this next PFH. It's 60 days from release and we haven't heard a single word about MC. They don't even have all the races, classes, actions, reactions, spells, sub classes that were promised... what makes you think they will get MC incorporated? Yes, they said they would... but time is running short.

It might not be in this patch, but it will be in by release.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by pahrias:

Ok so seems a bit divided. Not 100% confirmed, but good odds are what I am feeling from this.

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

Both.

Every time you gain a level, you can put it into any class you want to (although I'm not sure if BG3 will have a limit on how many classes you can take).

When you reach a certain level in a specific class (typically level 3, but some classes at level 1 or 2) you choose a subclass for it. You choose a subclass for every class you reach the appropriate level for.

Example: Clerics choose their subclass at level 1, Wizards choose at level 2, and Rogues at level 3.

A sixth level character with 1 level in Cleric, 2 levels in Wizard, and 3 levels in Rogue would have a total of 3 subclasses, one for each class.

While some features are tracked by overall character level, many more are tracked by your class and subclass levels.

Yeah that's what I was hoping, but with no UI element for it or any indication in character creator, I had to ask.
That would beg the questions then, of compatibility, what classes either shouldnt or cannot mix, and what classes would benefit most from multi-classing.
I feel Fighter/Wizard would be a good one, and is my usual preference in any game with a magic system. But it would seem a little redundant for say Wizard/Sorcerer.

A Wizard/Rouge would be another obvious one. A thief would benefit massively from illusion or telekinesis. And I suppose depending on Level cap in full release, most classes would benefit from having cleric, given the limited spells and healing.

The 5e ruleset does not prohibit any multiclass combination, however you must have at least a 13 in both primary stats of your initial class and the class you want to multiclass into.

For example, Fighter's primary stat is Str and Cleric's primary stat is Wis. If you began as a Fighter and then wanted to level as a Cleric, you'd need at least a 13 in both Str and Wis, and this is true the other way if you started as a Cleric.

The thing I don't like about this system is that not all builds use the primary stat to begin with. In the above example, if I create a Dex based Fighter instead of a Str based Fighter, why should I be prevented from multiclassing? It makes no sense.

If you want to get a sense of what combinations are good for, look them up online, as there are endless discussions about every possible combination. You can also watch D4 (formerly D&DOptimized) on YT if you like number crunching munchkin builds.

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by pahrias:

Ok so seems a bit divided. Not 100% confirmed, but good odds are what I am feeling from this.

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

Both.

Every time you gain a level, you can put it into any class you want to (although I'm not sure if BG3 will have a limit on how many classes you can take).

When you reach a certain level in a specific class (typically level 3, but some classes at level 1 or 2) you choose a subclass for it. You choose a subclass for every class you reach the appropriate level for.

Example: Clerics choose their subclass at level 1, Wizards choose at level 2, and Rogues at level 3.

A sixth level character with 1 level in Cleric, 2 levels in Wizard, and 3 levels in Rogue would have a total of 3 subclasses, one for each class.

While some features are tracked by overall character level, many more are tracked by your class and subclass levels.

Yeah that's what I was hoping, but with no UI element for it or any indication in character creator, I had to ask.
That would beg the questions then, of compatibility, what classes either shouldnt or cannot mix, and what classes would benefit most from multi-classing.
I feel Fighter/Wizard would be a good one, and is my usual preference in any game with a magic system. But it would seem a little redundant for say Wizard/Sorcerer.

A Wizard/Rouge would be another obvious one. A thief would benefit massively from illusion or telekinesis. And I suppose depending on Level cap in full release, most classes would benefit from having cleric, given the limited spells and healing.

If they stick to the rules of 5e, then the requirements and restrictions for multiclassing are simple and minimal. In order to multiclass you must have 13 or higher in both (all) classes' main ability score/scores (e.g., a cleric/barbarian/warlock build would need 13+ in str [for the barb requirement], 13+ in wisdom [cleric], and 13+ charisma [warlock]). Outside of that, the only other restriction that comes to mind is you cant multiclass into the same class to take a second subclass (e.g., a champion fighter cannot re-take fighter as a second 'stream' in order to be a champion x/battle master y).

So any two classes CAN mix, but as you write that doesn't mean they should. A sorc/wiz isn't a complete waste (sorcery points are useful but generally not worth it) but doesn't mix as well as other combinations (e.g., the [in]famous 'sorcadin', 'sorlock' aka 'coffeelock' [sorcerer/warlock], most classes plus a single level dips into cleric).

[Heu, Iterum Id Feci]

Biggest disadvantage of multiclassing: You mess with your spellprogression.
If you take even one level in another class, you have to wait 1 level more until you get the next level Spell. Ie instead of getting fireball at lvl5 you'll get it at level 6.
And often times higher level spells are a better use of your spellslots then upcasting lower level spells.
Same for class feats. Also, if you don't take your classes mod 4, you'll always miss out on 1 ASI...
Only very few builds make up for these disadvantages you take. And then you'll end up with everyone playing pretty much the same character anyway...