A question for those more familiar with 5e

[Aniaran]

So I've been playing some version of tabletop since a fair bit before 3.5 and kind of skipped out on DnD since 4e onward. Pathfinder 1e and, to a lesser extent 2e, filled the gap for me rather nicely but I felt like giving BG3 a go since it's one of my favorite series and Larian at least make decent games. All the same I've got a couple questions for anyone with a bit of experience.

Is the character advancement supposed to feel this limiting? I'm honestly not certain if this is a 5e system limitation or Larian's interpretation in making it work for a CRPG, but it's a pretty stark contrast to what I'm used to. If it's Larian's rendition has there been any word on if there's going to be more variety for choices on leveling, or character creation?

Just strikes me as a bit surprising going from a system like Pathfinder where there's a ton of choices in what you can do for leveling progression to a much more limited system. Curious if that's the intended style of play or a side effect of the system translation.

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by Balltin:

Originally posted by Lord Adorable:

Honestly it's not even an exploit.

I never do it. So yes, nice thought.

Please explain how a couple level one characters can defeat and Cr5 and CR7 monster?

It is 'absolutely' an exploit. You would never be able to kill those monsters RAW. Larian enables it and makes it so you can plow through the crypt or grove battle at level 3. You couldn't do this in the earlier patches (1 and 2) and the Cambion would one shot your PC for getting too close. They changed it so that they are passive and if that isn't an exploit, then they need to change the definition of the word.

I once killed a CR 6 Wyvern at level 3 by detonating roughly 67 gallons of mayonnaise inside its throat.

[Ghost]

Originally posted by sleeper:

what is the cr of a party of 4 or 5 of level 1?

A party of 4 level 1 pc's is CR 1 - however, CR is a very loose guideline anyway.

[sleeper]

Originally posted by Ghost:

Originally posted by sleeper:

what is the cr of a party of 4 or 5 of level 1?

A party of 4 level 1 pc's is CR 1 - however, CR is a very loose guideline anyway.

and each level you gain a cr?

[Yojo0o]

CR is "challenge rating". You use it to measure encounter difficulty as a dungeon master, you don't actually assign one to the party.

I've seen nothing to indicate that BG3 is making use of the CR mechanic at all.

[Ghost]

Originally posted by sleeper:

Originally posted by Ghost:

A party of 4 level 1 pc's is CR 1 - however, CR is a very loose guideline anyway.

and each level you gain a cr?

Not quite - the CR is roughly equivalent to a group of 4 pc's of that level, so it's more like 0.25 for each player level.

Generally, either 1 level 4 character or 4 level 1 characters should be able to handle a CR 1.

Of course, this all ignores the encounter design itself, the builds of the pc's etc. so it's all just an estimate.

^ Also as YojoOo said, players don't actually get a CR, just the monsters / npc's.

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by Ghost:

Originally posted by sleeper:

and each level you gain a cr?

Not quite - the CR is roughly equivalent to a group of 4 pc's of that level, so it's more like 0.25 for each player level.

Generally, either 1 level 4 character or 4 level 1 characters should be able to handle a CR 1.

Of course, this all ignores the encounter design itself, the builds of the pc's etc. so it's all just an estimate.

^ Also as YojoOo said, players don't actually get a CR, just the monsters / npc's.

Yeah, and I think BG3 is displaying a "level" for enemies and NPCs, not a CR. CR doesn't necessarily correspond to level.

For instance, check out the Archmage statblock in the free basic rules online. They're explicitly listed as an 18th-level spellcaster, capable of casting level 9 spells, but their CR is only 12.

[Murderhobo]

Originally posted by Aniaran:

Is the character advancement supposed to feel this limiting?

Yes, 5e was designed a "baby's first RPG" so it is extenuatingly limited compared 3.X and derivatives, and most of the choices will end up coming with the same result, making things like race more aesthetic than anything else, compared to AD&D or 3.X. It's not as limiting as 4e but still.

But to be fair, most people got utterly lost with 3.X and many new players feel PF is overwhelming so it's understandable, really.

[brendan_in_china]

It's only baby steps at low tier, levels 1-4.

Like I wrote earlier, the game is additive, that is the complexity adds upon itself level after level.

Good luck fitting your character statistics onto a single page once they're say level 12. The complexity and individualization can be well out of hand by then.

We're only playing EA, so we're over-exposed to low level. Most of the game will be mid to high tier. At some point many players will settle on choices to better focus on story or ease-of-play.

[ExcaliburV]

Originally posted by Aniaran:

So I've been playing some version of tabletop since a fair bit before 3.5 and kind of skipped out on DnD since 4e onward. Pathfinder 1e and, to a lesser extent 2e, filled the gap for me rather nicely but I felt like giving BG3 a go since it's one of my favorite series and Larian at least make decent games. All the same I've got a couple questions for anyone with a bit of experience.

Is the character advancement supposed to feel this limiting? I'm honestly not certain if this is a 5e system limitation or Larian's interpretation in making it work for a CRPG, but it's a pretty stark contrast to what I'm used to. If it's Larian's rendition has there been any word on if there's going to be more variety for choices on leveling, or character creation?

Just strikes me as a bit surprising going from a system like Pathfinder where there's a ton of choices in what you can do for leveling progression to a much more limited system. Curious if that's the intended style of play or a side effect of the system translation.

It's never gonna stack up to Pathfinder. There are some things people have mentioned- multiclassing isn't in yet, Monk isn't in yet, there are a lot of subclasses missing. But even with all of that added, if you're expecting it to be like 3.5 or PF, it won't be.

Ultimately you pick your class and your subclass, then (not factoring multiclassing) most of your class features are chosen for you. From there the only say you really have is what ASI/Feat you take every 4 levels.

[sleeper]

Its sad that 5e is less free to put it like that like 3.x but and its a big but its very popular and easy to work with so there probably will be no need for a 6e.

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by sleeper:

Its sad that 5e is less free to put it like that like 3.x but and its a big but its very popular and easy to work with so there probably will be no need for a 6e.

I'd urge you to form your own opinion on it after some exposure to it. BG3 is a bit restricted without supplemental material in the game, but I've never felt especially limited in character options in my home games.

[sleeper]

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

Originally posted by sleeper:

Its sad that 5e is less free to put it like that like 3.x but and its a big but its very popular and easy to work with so there probably will be no need for a 6e.

I'd urge you to form your own opinion on it after some exposure to it. BG3 is a bit restricted without supplemental material in the game, but I've never felt especially limited in character options in my home games.

Honestly I do hope its has more. I play Solasta and you can feel the limitations.

[WeenerTuck813]

Originally posted by Ghost:

Originally posted by sleeper:

and each level you gain a cr?

Not quite - the CR is roughly equivalent to a group of 4 pc's of that level, so it's more like 0.25 for each player level.

Generally, either 1 level 4 character or 4 level 1 characters should be able to handle a CR 1.

Of course, this all ignores the encounter design itself, the builds of the pc's etc. so it's all just an estimate.

^ Also as YojoOo said, players don't actually get a CR, just the monsters / npc's.

I mean, I’m going to be ‘that guy’ here…but that’s not entirely true.

Moon Druids shape shift based on Beast CR. So TECHNICALLY, a Moon Druid player can be assigned a CR depending upon shapeshifting.

But that’s just a digression, arguing to argue lol. Couldn’t help myself 😂

[WeenerTuck813]

Originally posted by sleeper:

Its sad that 5e is less free to put it like that like 3.x but and its a big but its very popular and easy to work with so there probably will be no need for a 6e.

5e is designed to take the emphasis off of mechanics and bloated character min max options and unburden the player so they can focus on RP, real time play decisions, and in game interactions.

If the fun of the game for you is derived from building a complex character with multiclassing and synergizing feats, 5e will feel too simplistic for you and as though they took the fun out of the game.

For a video game, the 5e design is made so you can make your character quickly and simply, and focus on the actual game in front of you.

[Heu, Iterum Id Feci]

I've had it happen a group of 8 Goblins (total CR of 2) absolutely demolishing a party of 4 lvl 2 Adventurers, while the same group had no problem with a single Goblin Soldier (also CR2). CR is just a rough guideline. Action Economy for example has to be kept in mind. Usually with 2 groups of roughly equal strength the one with more actions wins in d&d5e. That's why most boss mobs usually have legendary Actions. To even out the playing field in that regard.