So lets talk about Humans.

[Daheadsmiter]

I would like to have a Civil discussion about Humans in Larians new game coming out. So that being said it seems humans are going to be the worse race to start as. Since we all get a +2, and a +1 added to any race this makes the human the worse to start. As all other races have other abilities unique to themselves have it be Darkvision, breath weapon, lucky, etc. Humans just get stats... so either they get +1 in all stat or the +2, +1 spread. It seems pretty weak and to round it out giving humans a "feat" seems to be the only fair choice to add to them to even be worth choosing. I hope I am wrong and us humans get some needed buffs to even compete with other choices but we will see. If anyone has any actual facts about this I would like to know. But please be Civil. C:

[Faptor]

Originally posted by Daheadsmiter:

it seems humans are going to be the worse race to start as.

no,u



Seriously though, that +2 is pretty good.

[Marquis Kenny]

well, they're just humans they don't do anything special.

[zeeb]

Originally posted by Daheadsmiter:

I would like to have a Civil discussion about Humans in Larians new game coming out. So that being said it seems humans are going to be the worse race to start as. Since we all get a +2, and a +1 added to any race this makes the human the worse to start. As all other races have other abilities unique to themselves have it be Darkvision, breath weapon, lucky, etc. Humans just get stats... so either they get +1 in all stat or the +2, +1 spread. It seems pretty weak and to round it out giving humans a "feat" seems to be the only fair choice to add to them to even be worth choosing. I hope I am wrong and us humans get some needed buffs to even compete with other choices but we will see. If anyone has any actual facts about this I would like to know. But please be Civil. C:

Guess it depends on how you want to play the character, but from a purely gaming standpoint in relation to what's meta then yeah, human is then the worst race to be playing as since no class needs a bonus in their dump stats. That said, if they made some interactions easier or diplomacy for example when playing as a human then it would equal out due to them getting such a benefit.

Other than that, any race can fill their shoes better.
Humans aren't meta in D&D which is why I like Pathfinder more where you get to put your +2 anywhere you want and you get one bonus trait as well as 1 more skill point per level making them pretty great overall and viable but still not specialized like a gnome for example.

[Gaz O'D]

Apparently they get a +20 carry capacity.

[Zoommeeting]

Sven deliberately under powered humans to oblivion because he hated that most people were playing as humans.

[zeeb]

Originally posted by Zoommeeting:

Sven deliberately under powered humans to oblivion because he hated that most people were playing as humans.

Humans is like this in the D&D ruleset, which Sven had no finger in shaping whatsoever.
But them not adding variant human could be used as an argument for your case.

[Mosey]

Human's are already pretty weak unless they pick Barbarian or Paladin, but without their niche ability to hit 16 in three stats I know I won't ever pick one again.

I'm fine with some downsides, but I'm less fine with nothing except downsides.

[Gaz O'D]

Originally posted by Gaz O'D:

Apparently they get a +20 carry capacity.

To whoever gave me the laugh badge, as funny as it sounds I'm not actually joking. It's true.

[Aldain]

I'm just waiting for the post launch Variant Human mod myself.

[HozzMidnight]

In the PFH we saw three icons for Human racials during the character creation segment. The first one all races had so it must be the +2/+1 floating attribute boosts. The second icon seems like it is proficiencies, which vary based on race. The additional human proficiencies seem to be, based on the text from the video, pole arm and light armor. The final icon has 3 line/arrow things. Hard to guess what it was but in the comments of the latest Fextralife video he said it was +20 to carry capacity.

So that's what humans get, If you compare that, objectively, with literally all of the other race choices it comes up woefully short. Some other races got nerfed with this +2/+1 float thing, but humans (and half elves since full blood elves are objectively better than their half elf counterparts) are now pointless outside of RP reasons. This is bad game design/balance.

[Dr. Raven]

Originally posted by Gaz O'D:

Apparently they get a +20 carry capacity.

Can confirm. Saw fextralife answering a question about human features in his new bg3 video.

This is honestly ridiculous. What's Larian's problem with human players?

[katzenkrimis]

Originally posted by Daheadsmiter:

It seems pretty weak.

If that were true, it would make me want to play them even more.

Most video games come with an assortment of overpowered abilities. May as well handicap myself and make things challenging. Gamers are notorious for cheating, exploiting game flaws, and abusing overpowered abilities.

If a video game has a weakness, I'm all in. Been playing like that for decades. It's not like I won't be able to finish the game because my character is human.

Aside from that, I choose humans in every video game. For practical reasons. I'm not big on science fiction or fantasy characters. That certainly untangles things when having to make life or death decisions in a Tolkienesque game. Or a space game.

Thing with the inorganic tentacle and synthetic eye, go to hell.

Human, you may carry on.

If it came to choosing between a Tiefling, Elf or Druid, then I'd simply choose the most down-to-earth solution.

[.Master Jiren, The Strongest]

Originally posted by zeeb:

Originally posted by Daheadsmiter:

I would like to have a Civil discussion about Humans in Larians new game coming out. So that being said it seems humans are going to be the worse race to start as. Since we all get a +2, and a +1 added to any race this makes the human the worse to start. As all other races have other abilities unique to themselves have it be Darkvision, breath weapon, lucky, etc. Humans just get stats... so either they get +1 in all stat or the +2, +1 spread. It seems pretty weak and to round it out giving humans a "feat" seems to be the only fair choice to add to them to even be worth choosing. I hope I am wrong and us humans get some needed buffs to even compete with other choices but we will see. If anyone has any actual facts about this I would like to know. But please be Civil. C:

Guess it depends on how you want to play the character, but from a purely gaming standpoint in relation to what's meta then yeah, human is then the worst race to be playing as since no class needs a bonus in their dump stats. That said, if they made some interactions easier or diplomacy for example when playing as a human then it would equal out due to them getting such a benefit.

Other than that, any race can fill their shoes better.
Humans aren't meta in D&D which is why I like Pathfinder more where you get to put your +2 anywhere you want and you get one bonus trait as well as 1 more skill point per level making them pretty great overall and viable but still not specialized like a gnome for example.

in world of warcraft the racial trait that humans were given was "diplomacy" which increased how quickly you built up reputation with various factions.

If you think about it in fantasy settings, humans are always the most plentiful race and thus, the entire world is pretty much ruled by humans. dwarves are always in the hills or underground, elves are in secluded forests and rarely partake in the politics with the lesser races, and any other race is so rare that not every fantasy setting uses the same extra ones.

Human being the dominant race as far as numbers are concerned means that if you chose that race you were more likely to get more friendly interactions in roleplay with less people giving you the side eye. Humans overall, were sacrificing "powerful racial traits" for an easier time in the game. if you think about things like the Noble background, if you were a dwarf or elf noble most of the time that just meant somewhere far off in the hills or forests you were someone of note, but a human noble could literally be someone powerful right there in the town you'll be in for your campaign. Sure, you could make the argument for anyone but i'm saying what was most likely based on numbers and population it was far more likely you could make something work with humans.

BG3 however, there is no such roleplay.
So all you end up getting is shafted.
And I shaft humans even more by giving everyone a free feat, so human variant doesnt even exist in my world.

It would be nice if Wizards of the Coast could implement a tangible system for reputation/renown so that humans would have an easier time in social interactions, though, I guess they would just give them persuasion or something.

I will say though, starting with great weapon master is the most powerful feat in the game and having that at level 1 means anything you damage gets 1-shot, letting you hit level 2 very quickly. That +10 will always be useful, so not having to wait until level 4 is always a very powerful thing. A lot of feats are very very powerful and the best feats are better than almost all racials. There are however some races who get so many racial traits that it just isnt fair (Dwarves, Elves). i know this is a different setting but go look at the mark of warding dwarf (or whatever its called) it has like 10 features on top of a spell table. Thats a lot of features even for other races in that same setting.

Elf is the only race that has almost as many racial features as dwarves. Though the Gnome has the most powerful racial trait being equal to a free rare item which is absurd.

But yeah. humans get nothing.
Its pretty wild.

[The1Kobra]

At least according to the UA ruleset, there are variant humans who get a bonus feat at level 1 in exchange for some reduced stat bonuses. If I recall correctly it was +1 feat and +1 to 3 different stats.
Which could make for some interesting builds depending on what feat you opt for.

[ahmannw]

Originally posted by The1Kobra:

At least according to the UA ruleset, there are variant humans who get a bonus feat at level 1 in exchange for some reduced stat bonuses. If I recall correctly it was +1 feat and +1 to 3 different stats.
Which could make for some interesting builds depending on what feat you opt for.

I believe it has been for practical purposes confirmed (see Wolfheart and Fexlife youtube videos) that humans don't get a bonus feat and get +2/+1 like every other race. Less clear is whether you can choose the old stat array (e.g., +1 to all for humans). They get Light Armor, polearm proficiencies, and +20 carrying capacity. It's so obviously a shaft that most people who care are either split between believing there must be a catch or already disappointed at what appears to be the final version. One of the ways to make sense of it is if a game design decision was made to reduce the number of players who choose humans, which is currently the most popular race. It will drive pretty much every min-maxer to another race.