Melee gloomstalker builds?

[Satyr]

My original plan going into BG3 was going to be an illusion mage, but without knowing how well its actually going to translate to the video game genre, I have been trying to think of what I would do as a backup.

I would be very interested in some recommendations for a melee Gloomstalker build. I don't have a lot of insight on the class, but from random google searches I have seen recommendations for multiclassing Gloomstalker with assassin, fighter, and cleric. However none of them really specifically mentioned how well they would perform with melee.

[Foolswalkin]

Opprinnelig skrevet av sevensided:

Opprinnelig skrevet av SatyricL:

If I can ask one more question, whats the difference between starting ranger or starting rogue? I've gotten the idea that it matters, but I'm not sure on the full scope of why.

Starting with martial weapon presidencies, shield and medium armor (for a melee at least), and more hit points is what you get with starting Ranger over Rogue. Also, if you go five levels of ranger first, you can get your extra attack earlier.

I don't think this is true.
Starting Rogue gets you an extra skill over going in the reverse order.
Starting with Ranger gets you 2 more hp.

When you MC into Ranger, you should pick up the rest of the stuff you listed. I would suggest Rogue 1/Ranger 5/Rogue X as an order and eat the one level delay on Extra Attack and Gloomstalker subclass as a trade for a permanent extra skill and assume that Sneak Attack from level 1 on will compensate, but YMMV. Wood Elf Ranger Rogue is going to end up with a lot of skills, regardless.

e: Sorry, I edit posts a lot.
ee: Full list of multiclassing stuff here.
https://5thsrd.org/rules/multiclassing/

[dolby]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Harukage:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Edstyles:

I heared 3 gloom 3 assassin and 6 warrior is a good build

But that is only one ASI

fighter gets 2 by the time your level 6...

Or you can go 5/3/4 if you want again 2 Asi/feat.... from two classes if that makes you feel better... but defentely get that extra attack first max delay it for 1 level....

[sevensided]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Foolswalkin:

Opprinnelig skrevet av sevensided:

Starting with martial weapon presidencies, shield and medium armor (for a melee at least), and more hit points is what you get with starting Ranger over Rogue. Also, if you go five levels of ranger first, you can get your extra attack earlier.

I don't think this is true.
Starting Rogue gets you an extra skill over going in the reverse order.
Starting with Ranger gets you 2 more hp.

When you MC into Ranger, you should pick up the rest of the stuff you listed. I would suggest Rogue 1/Ranger 5/Rogue X as an order and eat the one level delay on Extra Attack and Gloomstalker subclass as a trade for a permanent extra skill and assume that Sneak Attack from level 1 on will compensate, but YMMV. Wood Elf Ranger Rogue is going to end up with a lot of skills, regardless.

e: Sorry, I edit posts a lot.
ee: Full list of multiclassing stuff here.
https://5thsrd.org/rules/multiclassing/

*Starting With*

I know you pick up the rest of that when you multi into Ranger. But there is value with *starting with* these proficiencies depending on your build order. I'm not saying its a better start either, just noting what you get when starting with Ranger as opposed to a Rogue.

[Satyr]

One more question. What are my weapon type options for a Melee Gloomstalker/Assassin?

For example, would I be able to use a greatsword? Or would it be more recommended to go with Sword/shield? Sword/dagger? Or can I just do whatever I want and it wont be a big enough issue to mess anything up?

(I imagine I am out of luck with a great sword. Probably requires strength, which would conflict with ranger/rogue's dex synergy?)

[Harukage]

Dual wielding fail at action economy. You need to spend your bonus action each turn for proper damage. Bonus action you can use for something else. Sword and shield, why? You want to kill things fast, not to stand and trade blows. You can never go wrong with twohanders.

[dolby]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Foolswalkin:

Opprinnelig skrevet av sevensided:

Starting with martial weapon presidencies, shield and medium armor (for a melee at least), and more hit points is what you get with starting Ranger over Rogue. Also, if you go five levels of ranger first, you can get your extra attack earlier.

I don't think this is true.
Starting Rogue gets you an extra skill over going in the reverse order.
Starting with Ranger gets you 2 more hp.

When you MC into Ranger, you should pick up the rest of the stuff you listed. I would suggest Rogue 1/Ranger 5/Rogue X as an order and eat the one level delay on Extra Attack and Gloomstalker subclass as a trade for a permanent extra skill and assume that Sneak Attack from level 1 on will compensate, but YMMV. Wood Elf Ranger Rogue is going to end up with a lot of skills, regardless.

e: Sorry, I edit posts a lot.
ee: Full list of multiclassing stuff here.
https://5thsrd.org/rules/multiclassing/

With ranger first you get better saving throw proficances at least in my opinion...

[Satyr]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Harukage:

Dual wielding fail at action economy. You need to spend your bonus action each turn for proper damage. Bonus action you can use for something else. Sword and shield, why? You uwant to kill thingsfast, not to stand and trade blows. You can never go wrong with twohanders.

Well my fantasy for this class is an edgy shadow ranger with a two handed sword terrorizing people in the dark. Haha

Im just throwing out other random weapon combinations based on what I see on the proficiencies listed on the wiki. I have no clue what is actually good. Haha

[dolby]

Opprinnelig skrevet av SatyricL:

One more question. What are my weapon type options for a Melee Gloomstalker/Assassin?

For example, would I be able to use a greatsword? Or would it be more recommended to go with Sword/shield? Sword/dagger? Or can I just do whatever I want and it wont be a big enough issue to mess anything up?

(I imagine I am out of luck with a great sword. Probably requires strength, which would conflict with ranger/rogue's dex synergy?)

if you go battle master 5/3/4 you have more options cos you get extra fightign style...though at later levels...

[Satyr]

So I read on the wiki that sneak attack requires a Finesse weapon. However Assassinate only mentions that it works on surprised enemies, and has no weapon requirement.

Would it be a complete waste for me to go with a greatsword, and lose the ability to sneak attack, but still be able to use assassinate? How critical is it to the gloomstalker/assassin build to use a finesse weapon and pump dex as opposed to minimal dex and a strength focus for GWM?

[dolby]

Opprinnelig skrevet av SatyricL:

So I read on the wiki that sneak attack requires a Finesse weapon. However Assassinate only mentions that it works on surprised enemies, and has no weapon requirement.

Would it be a complete waste for me to go with a greatsword, and lose the ability to sneak attack, but still be able to use assassinate? How critical is it to the gloomstalker/assassin build to use a finesse weapon and pump dex as opposed to minimal dex and a strength focus for GWM?

Depands on the level you take if your going 3 levels in assassin you lose 2d6 sneak attack when not using finesse weapon. but bg 3 made sneak attack in a wierd way it doesnt stack with other attacks, they made it into active action...Anyway long story short they let you sneak attack twice per round once with melee weapon and once with range attack in certain circumstance.

How exactly will that work with muticlassing i can't tell just yet.. But with speed potion or spell it works in EA at least so that 2d6 damage in turn changes into 4d6...

So you basically only lose half of sneak attack. if your not using a finesse weapon.

But can't be 100% cos i didn't play full version of the game yet take it with a grain of salt.

[Harukage]

Twohanded weapon and just use your bonus action to move your hunter's mark. The raw damage and extra 1D6 from mark is comparable to your finesse weapon with 2D6 smeak atack. That is if you are going gloom/assassin/battle master.
If gloom/assassin only use your finesse weapon and max out sneak atack.

[Foolswalkin]

Opprinnelig skrevet av sevensided:

*Starting With*

I know you pick up the rest of that when you multi into Ranger. But there is value with *starting with* these proficiencies depending on your build order. I'm not saying its a better start either, just noting what you get when starting with Ranger as opposed to a Rogue.

Sorry, parsed "starting with -> get" differently, where "get" meant "the build ends up with" (because that's where the decision point of what to take at first level boils down to for me) vs. "get" meant "have from the beginning" for you.

To be clear, then - if you start with Ranger, you will not ever get the additional skill you would have if you started with Rogue. Rogue picks four skills at start, Ranger picks three, and either awards one extra skill when multiclassed into.

Also, for funsies - your spellcheck turned "proficiencies" into "presidencies," which I got a kick out of. Not trying to score points, just might also be funny to you.

Opprinnelig skrevet av Harukage:

Dual wielding fail at action economy. You need to spend your bonus action each turn for proper damage. Bonus action you can use for something else. Sword and shield, why? You want to kill things fast, not to stand and trade blows. You can never go wrong with twohanders.

You can if you're using finesse weapons for sneak attack and stat efficiency, though. Also, Hunter's mark isn't capped at 1/turn, so more hits = better.

Opprinnelig skrevet av SatyricL:

So I read on the wiki that sneak attack requires a Finesse weapon. However Assassinate only mentions that it works on surprised enemies, and has no weapon requirement.

Would it be a complete waste for me to go with a greatsword, and lose the ability to sneak attack, but still be able to use assassinate? How critical is it to the gloomstalker/assassin build to use a finesse weapon and pump dex as opposed to minimal dex and a strength focus for GWM?

I wouldn't bother with Assassin if I were throwing away sneak attack, that's too high an opportunity cost. You could do other stuff, like the Ranger/Cleric option discussed up top, which with War Priest could burn bonus actions for extra greatsword swings, and still use the Gloomstalker just fine if that's in your character concept.

I mean, do whatever you want. But for build advice, Sneak Attack is a big part of the design of Rogue balance, I wouldn't get it and not use it.

[sevensided]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Foolswalkin:

Also, for funsies - your spellcheck turned "proficiencies" into "presidencies," which I got a kick out of. Not trying to score points, just might also be funny to you.

LOL, I just saw that.

Opprinnelig skrevet av SatyricL:

One more question. What are my weapon type options for a Melee Gloomstalker/Assassin?

For example, would I be able to use a greatsword? Or would it be more recommended to go with Sword/shield? Sword/dagger? Or can I just do whatever I want and it wont be a big enough issue to mess anything up?

(I imagine I am out of luck with a great sword. Probably requires strength, which would conflict with ranger/rogue's dex synergy?)

If you're planning a gloom/Assassin/Battlemaster build, with the intent to go melee, I'd probably go with rapier and shield and pick up the dueling style.

There is a reason the gloom/assassin build uses range is for the +10 damage from sharpshooter feat combined with the archery style from ranger makes it an absolute 1st round damage cannon. Its a much more effective/efficient/easier combination then trying to steer the build to melee.

That said, it can still be done melee, its just not going to be as effective in the damage area.

[.Master Jiren, The Strongest]

Opprinnelig skrevet av SatyricL:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Harukage:

I can see why multi into fighter or assassin. But why cleric though, given the subclasses given to us in BG3?

I wont even pretend to understand the why, ill just post the link where I read it. It may not even be applicable in BG3 because the topic wasnt about

Though honestly, I am leaning more towards assassin. Or fighter. Whichever ever makes Gloomstalker a better melee.

You dont need to multiclass. You can make a melee gloomstalker just, normal. If you're not familiar with the game then multiclassing is usually worse than just going full leveling because you lose out on higher level spells. This doesnt matter as much with Ranger as their spells are already weak, but just know if you do multiclass a ranger you're basically giving up magic altogether unless you're multiclassing with a full caster, but at that point you're making a full caster, not a ranger. And it sounds like you want to make a melee ranger.


I dont know what features BG3 gives a wood elf, but the wood elf would be the go-to for a ranger, especially a stealthy ranger. They get +2 dex and +1 wisdom, making them the best elf race for a ranger. If you take 14 dex and 15 wisdom as your starting stats, then both of your stats will become 16 right off the bat, giving you a +3 to every dex and wisdom check and saving throw as well as perception stealth sleight of hand insight medicine and animal handling. im not sure if there are acrobatics checks in bg3 but you'd get that too. You'd also have +3 to all your weapon attacks, and add your proficiency bonus to that too, plus whatever skills you chose to be proficient in, so +5 stealth at minimum for an average stealth check of 15 which beats almost all passive perception checks in the game since you'd need a wisdom score of 20 to passively meet that average stealth check.

Thats literally just a standard wood elf ranger.
From there you take up a rapier which I think is the strongest dex melee weapon that i'm aware of, 1d8+3, with +5 to hit until level 5 where it becomes +6 to hit (and +7 if you take +2 dex at level 4)

You probably want to take the extra dex at level 4 because you'll want to take studded leather armor as soon as you can which gives you an AC of 12+ Dex, as a melee character you need that. With that you'd have 15 AC, or 16 AC at level 4 if you take +2 dex, which again is highly reccomended as it gives you more damage hit and AC not to mention your stealth checks and dex saving throws.

Wood Elf also has this feature: Mask of the Wild.

You can attempt to hide even when you are only lightly obscured by foliage, heavy rain, falling snow, mist, and other natural phenomena.

I dont know if thats in BG3 but its obviously designed for a ranger that wants to use stealth, which you do. Keep in mind you can also use a shield, so once your AC hits 16, a shield brings it up to 18 which is the same as plate armor except you wont have disadvantage on stealth checks. and if you're not multiclassing you still have the full power of a ranger

You get 3rd level spell slots at level 9 and an extra slot at level 11.
So if you want to multiclass you could just the last 3 levels into something else like an assassin rogue, you wouldnt be compromising much, you wouldnt be gaining much either but it could be more beneficial than the last spell slot.

just remember if you multiclass out of ranger you lose the ultimate skill of your class at level 11, you lose a feat at level 12, and you lose the highest level ranger feature which is a powerful stealth feature.

I would just say dont bother multiclassing. But you can respec in the game once its released, so, you can multiclass and see how you like it, test it out and if you dont like it switch back. which is grossly overpowered tbh because a lot of strategies are going to be born just from exploiting the respec ability. Like just making a fighter or paladin until level 5 then respeccing into a wizard so that you never lose power ever.

[dolby]

Opprinnelig skrevet av .Master Jiren, The Strongest:

which is grossly overpowered tbh because a lot of strategies are going to be born just from exploiting the respec ability. Like just making a fighter or paladin until level 5 then respeccing into a wizard so that you never lose power ever.

well i and some others asked for a proper level up preview window to plan level up and builds but saidly it looks like we don't get one.(but we do get those animations when click the class so that's something i guess heh)



So on first playthough you are basically blindly leveling up and hoping it works out...Cos you have no clue how larian made things homebrewed.


I guess you can save before level up and reload but still busy work and not how it should be in 2023...

So without that respect thing could get wonky fast if you dont save and load abuse...