Melee gloomstalker builds?

[Satyr]

My original plan going into BG3 was going to be an illusion mage, but without knowing how well its actually going to translate to the video game genre, I have been trying to think of what I would do as a backup.

I would be very interested in some recommendations for a melee Gloomstalker build. I don't have a lot of insight on the class, but from random google searches I have seen recommendations for multiclassing Gloomstalker with assassin, fighter, and cleric. However none of them really specifically mentioned how well they would perform with melee.

[Harukage]

I can see why multi into fighter or assassin. But why cleric though, given the subclasses given to us in BG3?

[Satyr]

Originally posted by Harukage:

I can see why multi into fighter or assassin. But why cleric though, given the subclasses given to us in BG3?

I wont even pretend to understand the why, ill just post the link where I read it. It may not even be applicable in BG3 because the topic wasnt about the video game.

https://www.reddit.com/r/3d6/comments/ki7yul/comment/ggpcf0h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
(In hindsight, this person actually recommends hunter instead of gloomstalker.)

The first one I read regarding cleric was the "death domain" cleric, but thats not in BG3 so I searched cleric in general and saw people recommending War Cleric and Nature Cleric.

Though honestly, I am leaning more towards assassin. Or fighter. Whichever ever makes Gloomstalker a better melee.

[Foolswalkin]

Ranger/Cleric is neat. Colossus Slayer/Life Priest with Heavy Armor and Polearm/Sentinel is probably the way to go (depending on how they rule the Goodberry / Disciple of Life interaction, but IIRC by RAW and Sage Advice it works and it is some crazy efficient healing, 32 hp off a first level slot, available as early as CL3) instead of Gloomstalker, but Gloomstalker could still potentially be amazing depending on how much of the game the Darkvision invisibility will apply for. I think the thing here is not to say "here's what I would be giving up not being a pure Cleric or Ranger" but "I need 1-2 frontliners, what can I get out of them?" Ranger/Cleric can be a great frontliner while also being a main healer. Spirit Guardians (3rd level cleric spell) in particular is bananas strong, and the more enemies you're getting up and close to the better it is, so if you're standing there holding the line with a Polearm, might as well also marinate them in a storm of radiant energy that slows their movement and damages them. Notable spelllist options are 1: Healing Word, Hunter's Mark, Bless, Goodberry, 2: Aid, Lesser Restoration, Spiritual Weapon, Spike Growth (sadly not compatible with Spirit Guardians due to concentration, but still another really great option to hold the line and one available to you at CL 5) 3: Spirit Guardians 4: Upcast Spirit Guardians. Note that if you're switching out of Ranger ASAP after extra attack, you're only going to be getting Spirit Guardians at level 10, so that's pretty late in the game, but as soon as you unlock it you'll be able to cast it 3*day and upcast it once, which is going to be a pretty big bump to your abilities.

If Goodberry + Disciple doesn't work, there's also the meme Ranger/Nature Priest Shillelagh combo that lets you drop strength down 15 for armor and max Wisdom, will give you nicer DCs on your spells while giving you another proficiency to boot.

Finesse Gloomstalker + Assassin is, I think, the way to go if you want to maximize Gloomstalker-ness. Take Rogue 1st so you get the extra skill, then Gloomstalker for 5 levels to get the extra attack, then two more Rogue for Assassin, then whatever. You can go Ranger 8/Rogue 4 for clean ASIs, or Ranger 5/Rogue 7 for Expertise, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and 2d6 more sneak attack at cap (I prefer the latter). Assuming you're planning on separating this character from the party and attacking from stealth, their first turn damage is breathtaking - if you have Hunter's Mark up from a previous fight and if you can reassign it as a bonus action without breaking stealth (works by RAW, but nontrivial ifs that depend on Larian's decisions) at CL 8 you're looking at four autocrit first turn attacks with advantage for 1d6 (finesse/light) + 1d6 (Hunter's Mark) + 2d6 sneak attack (up to 4d6 by level 12) + 1d8 (dread ambusher), all of which are doubled by crits, for 12-16d6 + 2d8 + 4x stat mod if they all hit. As they said back in 4E Charop, "'Dead' is the best status effect you can inflict on an enemy."

[Edstyles]

I heared 3 gloom 3 assassin and 6 warrior is a good build

[Harukage]

Originally posted by Edstyles:

I heared 3 gloom 3 assassin and 6 warrior is a good build

But that is only one ASI

[Foolswalkin]

Originally posted by Harukage:

Originally posted by Edstyles:

I heared 3 gloom 3 assassin and 6 warrior is a good build

But that is only one ASI

And an awkward journey. It'll come together at level 11.

[Edstyles]

Huh why . assasin gets his stuff at lv 3 and same with gloom. You are just mega overracting lol, could also go with more points in ranger like it dont matter . Just the combo of those classes make alot of sense.

[Satyr]

Originally posted by Foolswalkin:

Ranger/Cleric is neat. Colossus Slayer/Life Priest with Heavy Armor and Polearm/Sentinel is probably the way to go (depending on how they rule the Goodberry / Disciple of Life interaction, but IIRC by RAW and Sage Advice it works and it is some crazy efficient healing, 32 hp off a first level slot, available as early as CL3) instead of Gloomstalker, but Gloomstalker could still potentially be amazing depending on how much of the game the Darkvision invisibility will apply for. I think the thing here is not to say "here's what I would be giving up not being a pure Cleric or Ranger" but "I need 1-2 frontliners, what can I get out of them?" Ranger/Cleric can be a great frontliner while also being a main healer. Spirit Guardians (3rd level cleric spell) in particular is bananas strong, and the more enemies you're getting up and close to the better it is, so if you're standing there holding the line with a Polearm, might as well also marinate them in a storm of radiant energy that slows their movement and damages them. Notable spelllist options are 1: Healing Word, Hunter's Mark, Bless, Goodberry, 2: Aid, Lesser Restoration, Spiritual Weapon, Spike Growth (sadly not compatible with Spirit Guardians due to concentration, but still another really great option to hold the line and one available to you at CL 5) 3: Spirit Guardians 4: Upcast Spirit Guardians. Note that if you're switching out of Ranger ASAP after extra attack, you're only going to be getting Spirit Guardians at level 10, so that's pretty late in the game, but as soon as you unlock it you'll be able to cast it 3*day and upcast it once, which is going to be a pretty big bump to your abilities.

If Goodberry + Disciple doesn't work, there's also the meme Ranger/Nature Priest Shillelagh combo that lets you drop strength down 15 for armor and max Wisdom, will give you nicer DCs on your spells while giving you another proficiency to boot.

Finesse Gloomstalker + Assassin is, I think, the way to go if you want to maximize Gloomstalker-ness. Take Rogue 1st so you get the extra skill, then Gloomstalker for 5 levels to get the extra attack, then two more Rogue for Assassin, then whatever. You can go Ranger 8/Rogue 4 for clean ASIs, or Ranger 5/Rogue 7 for Expertise, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and 2d6 more sneak attack at cap (I prefer the latter). Assuming you're planning on separating this character from the party and attacking from stealth, their first turn damage is breathtaking - if you have Hunter's Mark up from a previous fight and if you can reassign it as a bonus action without breaking stealth (works by RAW, but nontrivial ifs that depend on Larian's decisions) at CL 8 you're looking at four autocrit first turn attacks with advantage for 1d6 (finesse/light) + 1d6 (Hunter's Mark) + 2d6 sneak attack (up to 4d6 by level 12) + 1d8 (dread ambusher), all of which are doubled by crits, for 12-16d6 + 2d8 + 4x stat mod if they all hit. As they said back in 4E Charop, "'Dead' is the best status effect you can inflict on an enemy."

Thank you for all this info.

Out of curiosity, what do you think of Gloomstalker 5/Assassin 4/Battlemaster 3?

[Edstyles]

sounds good to me , but prolly just need 3 points in assassin?

[Foolswalkin]

Originally posted by SatyricL:

Thank you for all this info.

Out of curiosity, what do you think of Gloomstalker 5/Assassin 4/Battlemaster 3?

I had proposed it as an option in another thread, I think it's fine (although I'm not seeing right now why you shouldn't go Assassin 3 and Battlemaster 4 for the tiny bit of extra hp). I would prefer Ranger 5 Rogue 7 over it given how much Rogue picks up between 5 and 7 - you lose the off-turn Sneak Attack Ripostes, but your Sneak attack is twice as good and that synergizes much better with your first turn crit alpha strike, and Uncanny Dodge and Evasion are non trivial survivability upgrades.

Someone else being a Battlemaster for Commander's Strike could be quite good, though - they could feed the Assassinstalker another weapon attack during the surprise round, for another sneak attack with advantage and autocrit from assassin.

[Satyr]

Originally posted by Foolswalkin:

Originally posted by SatyricL:

Thank you for all this info.

Out of curiosity, what do you think of Gloomstalker 5/Assassin 4/Battlemaster 3?

I had proposed it as an option in another thread, I think it's fine (although I'm not seeing right now why you shouldn't go Assassin 3 and Battlemaster 4 for the tiny bit of extra hp). I would prefer Ranger 5 Rogue 7 over it given how much Rogue picks up between 5 and 7 - you lose the off-turn Sneak Attack Ripostes, but your Sneak attack is twice as good and that synergizes much better with your first turn crit alpha strike, and Uncanny Dodge and Evasion are non trivial survivability upgrades.

Cool, thank you!
How bad would it be to go Arcane Trickster instead of Assassin if I wanted a little more magic usage with my gloomstalker for the RP flavor? Or is assassin just going to be flat out better because of the guaranteed crit on surprised enemies?

[sevensided]

Originally posted by SatyricL:

Originally posted by Foolswalkin:

I had proposed it as an option in another thread, I think it's fine (although I'm not seeing right now why you shouldn't go Assassin 3 and Battlemaster 4 for the tiny bit of extra hp). I would prefer Ranger 5 Rogue 7 over it given how much Rogue picks up between 5 and 7 - you lose the off-turn Sneak Attack Ripostes, but your Sneak attack is twice as good and that synergizes much better with your first turn crit alpha strike, and Uncanny Dodge and Evasion are non trivial survivability upgrades.

Cool, thank you!
How bad would it be to go Arcane Trickster instead of Assassin if I wanted a little more magic usage with my gloomstalker for the RP flavor? Or is assassin just going to be flat out better because of the guaranteed crit on surprised enemies?

Gloomstalker meshes way too well with Assassin to really consider a different rogue subclass. AT uses INT for their magic, which clashes with Wisdom for rangers, and you won't pick up enough magic from AT to make the exchange from Assassin worth it.

[Satyr]

Originally posted by sevensided:

Originally posted by SatyricL:

Cool, thank you!
How bad would it be to go Arcane Trickster instead of Assassin if I wanted a little more magic usage with my gloomstalker for the RP flavor? Or is assassin just going to be flat out better because of the guaranteed crit on surprised enemies?

Gloomstalker meshes way too well with Assassin to really consider a different rogue subclass. AT uses INT for their magic, which clashes with Wisdom for rangers, and you won't pick up enough magic from AT to make the exchange from Assassin worth it.

Ah, okay. Thanks.

[Satyr]

If I can ask one more question, whats the difference between starting ranger or starting rogue? I've gotten the idea that it matters, but I'm not sure on the full scope of why.

[sevensided]

Originally posted by SatyricL:

If I can ask one more question, whats the difference between starting ranger or starting rogue? I've gotten the idea that it matters, but I'm not sure on the full scope of why.

Starting with martial weapon presidencies, shield and medium armor (for a melee at least), and more hit points is what you get with starting Ranger over Rogue. Also, if you go five levels of ranger first, you can get your extra attack earlier.