Baldur's Gate 3

Baldur's Gate 3

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Gaius Mar 6, 2023 @ 7:19am
I'm in love with Wolfheart Barbarian
Over 800 hours played and still finding better and better synergies.

I mean, did you guys actually test this? The whole PARTY has advantage on melee attack howls against enemies up to 2m of you.

Not only it is really thematic it's just amazing power too.

Spreading stats on pally was a problem? Now they actually HIT with Str 16. Astarion with wyvern poison missing and wasting huge potential? Not so much. Rangers and their pets slicing and dicing targets with cirurgical precision? Why not!

Dang, I just want the full game to play in new places and over lv 5 now...
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Showing 1-15 of 21 comments
if you think thats good wait til you learn 5e has a spell called Wish.
Hobocop Mar 6, 2023 @ 7:27pm 
Wolf Barbarian has always been good.

The problem is it was overshadowed by Bear Barbarian on TT since you don't need to care about having other melee party members to be effective.
Last edited by Hobocop; Mar 6, 2023 @ 7:29pm
Gaius Mar 6, 2023 @ 7:42pm 
Originally posted by .Master Jiren, The Strongest:
if you think thats good wait til you learn 5e has a spell called Wish.

I heard about it, a 9th level spell? Unlikely to be in BG3, at least at launch... also, hella hard to implement without making it just a lot of spells bunched together.

Originally posted by Hobocop:
Wolf Barbarian has always been good.

The problem is it was overshadowed by Bear Barbarian on TT since you don't need to care about having other melee party members to be effective.

Yeah, maybe it's because in act 1 we can basically never die with a barb without the bear extra survivabiity, but man, it made my 3 melee run (him, a oath of he ancients pally and Lae'zel, all 3 with GWM) a true blast to play. Usually GWM in chars under 18 STR must be turned off a lot of times, but this basically meant all 3 had the good part of reckless attack.

The 4th character as usual is a sorcerer. Because twinned casted haste is just too good with multiple martial characters in the group.
Ronin Gamer Mar 6, 2023 @ 9:40pm 
Originally posted by Gaius:
Over 800 hours played and still finding better and better synergies.

I mean, did you guys actually test this? The whole PARTY has advantage on melee attack howls against enemies up to 2m of you.

Not only it is really thematic it's just amazing power too.

Spreading stats on pally was a problem? Now they actually HIT with Str 16. Astarion with wyvern poison missing and wasting huge potential? Not so much. Rangers and their pets slicing and dicing targets with cirurgical precision? Why not!

Dang, I just want the full game to play in new places and over lv 5 now...
I mean yes it's a really strong bonus, but I don't run a group as exclusive melee. It doesn't benefit me because of that. I'd be running a barb and probably one other melee, and the other two are likely Shadowheart and either Gale or Wyll, and I use them mostly as spell casters so that melee bonus doesn't really help them much.
Gaius Mar 7, 2023 @ 6:11am 
Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:
Originally posted by Gaius:
Over 800 hours played and still finding better and better synergies.

I mean, did you guys actually test this? The whole PARTY has advantage on melee attack howls against enemies up to 2m of you.

Not only it is really thematic it's just amazing power too.

Spreading stats on pally was a problem? Now they actually HIT with Str 16. Astarion with wyvern poison missing and wasting huge potential? Not so much. Rangers and their pets slicing and dicing targets with cirurgical precision? Why not!

Dang, I just want the full game to play in new places and over lv 5 now...
I mean yes it's a really strong bonus, but I don't run a group as exclusive melee. It doesn't benefit me because of that. I'd be running a barb and probably one other melee, and the other two are likely Shadowheart and either Gale or Wyll, and I use them mostly as spell casters so that melee bonus doesn't really help them much.

Oh sure, it's pretty dependant on a melee focused party. Well, tbh one more melee with GWM already makes it probably the best barbarian spec.

I've also been playing with a savegame I have with a beast ranger and the Crow now can also use a ranged attack that causes advantage againt the target with ALL attacks, so even more flexible - but, of corse, the barbarian himself does more damage than the ranger and the pet combined.
Ceredh Mar 7, 2023 @ 8:19am 
Could you explain the damage advantage of Wolf Heart Barbarian over Beastmaster Ranger?
I don't get it, maybe I'm overlooking something (I only tried Wolf Heart for a short time, did not fit my party well).

The Wolf Heart has two attacks at lvl 5 (compared to the three of the Berserker), the Ranger has it too. The Ranger can wear heavy armor and skip Dex entirely, with GWM with a twohander he has only the two + 2 damage less per turn which the Barbarian gets from Rage. But for the Ranger there is the additional damage of the animal companion, which for the boar at lvl 5 can be about up to 17 damage average to a single target. The boar (a mini-Barbarian with rage and damage resistance) also has an aoe attack which can cause Prone, giving advantage to melee attacks.

So I would say the (melee) Beastmaster Ranger in the end deals more damage than the Wolf Heart Barbarian (or any Wildheart) while having fantastic additional possibilities with the animals, even if we do not take into account the absolutely op spider. He can do it in heavy armor and probably also with advantage. The Wolf Heart Barbarian has a more reliable source for advantage for himself and the rest of the (melee) party.

What would I choose of the two? Probably the Berserker... :)
Last edited by Ceredh; Mar 7, 2023 @ 8:34am
Gaius Mar 7, 2023 @ 8:57am 
Originally posted by Ceredh:
Could you explain the damage advantage of Wolf Heart Barbarian over Beastmaster Ranger?
I don't get it, maybe I'm overlooking something (I only tried Wolf Heart for a short time, did not fit my party well).

The Wolf Heart has two attacks at lvl 5 (compared to the three of the Berserker), the Ranger has it too. The Ranger can wear heavy armor and skip Dex entirely, with GWM he only has 2 x + 2 damage less with a twohander per turn, what the Barbarian gets from Rage. But for the Ranger there is the additional damage of the animal companion, which for the boar at lvl 5 can be about up to 17 damage average to a single target. The boar (a mini-Barbarian with rage and damage resistance) also has an aoe attack which can cause Prone, giving advantage to melee attacks.

So I would say the (melee) Beastmaster Ranger in the end deals more damage than the Wolf Heart Barbarian (or any Wildheart) while having fantastic additional possibilities with the animals, even if we do not take into account the absolutely op spider. The Wolf Heart Barbarian has a more reliable source for advantage for the rest of the party (if there is melee focus in it).

The barbarian takes half damage from most melee types during rage (he, not the pet) and GWM 2h attacks do a LOT more damage. Yeah, the ranger can do the same damage, but hitting characters with GWM penalty on gets harder and harder unless you have a party focused in incapacitate effects, while Reckless Attack just gives the barbarian permanent advantage, making the GMW strikes connect with a lot more consistency. Barbs can accept being hit and also do more damage if you choose to equip them with the Wrath items, and there's a glove that gives 15 temp HP each time you leave rage that makes irrelevant to take weak or few hits (yeah, metagaming, but there's that).

The ranger can emulate the Wildheart bonus (advantage to attacks against the targets) and actually make it better (all attacks, not just melee) with the Lv 5 Corvus, but that means you're not using any other pet. If you use the boar, you actually need to both hit and knock the targets prone, something improbable against harder enemies (and outright impossible against some heavy creatures/constructs). Melee pets can also be intrusive if you have more melee companions, because they can block their access to the target.

In the case of Windheart, part of your gameplay loop to close in with the enraged barbarian, and the Wolfheart aura debuff is permanent while enraged. The Crow curse is just amazing, but can be resisted, cannot cast the curse every turn, cannot keep it on multiple enemies in horde encounters (like the goblin camp and the underdark beack or myconid colony), etc.

Frankly, both together sound like a killer comp. The issue, tough, is that comp leaves no space for a pally or Battlemaster, but it's a matter of taste (playing a Wolfheart alongside a Oath of the Ancients pally was amazing, because it basically has the cleric buffs you usually want, a bit later, and also heas and hight mobility, while actually having a decent chance to HIT because of the permanent advantage - but hey, it would be nice alongside a Ranger too).

I prefer to have a ranged ranger frankly, because even if the damage is lower at least the Dex focus means I can make it the best lockpicker considering I'm not taking a bard of rogue, and we still need a high charisma character to be the party face and a caster to give either haste to our damage delars or fireball stuff in the name of fun (even if with those advantage buffs you can actually play without a cleric, some nice freedom compared to only the Origin characters - good luck usint La'zel with GWM and without Bless is nothing gives her advantage).

So in the end of the day, I think Wildheart Barb just fits better with the other classes I prefer to play, have a more intuitive game play / gameplay loop and miss less attacks, something that annoying the hell out of me.
Ceredh Mar 7, 2023 @ 11:51pm 
The question was which subclass deals more damage. I think currently it goes to the melee Beastmaster Ranger. That the Barbarian has some other advantages (partly literally) is correct, thankfully, because I will probably play as one. BTW, if Sharpshooter is in the release as feat (it has to in my opinion), the Dex based ranged Ranger has a nice damage option too, currently he sucks a bit (worst is Hunter).

The Beastmaster Ranger will always be more versatile however. And a pet, especially a flying pet, is a huge asset for the group. On the boat to Grymforge for example I usually send Wylls imp near the ranged dwarfs, immediately they go from killing one char with their multiple shots to missing all or most shots. You can heavily reduce the effectivity of ranged and casters this way.

Getting advantage surely is a huge thing, especially if you are playing with Karmic Dice disabled (like me), as hitting foes with higher AC gets a lot more difficult then. So the Wolf Heart is nice for a group with some other melee in it. Without a second melee it's a waste, as are most of the other Wildheart options. Bear Heart or Berserker are the strongest Barbarians in my opinion. Maybe in the longer run Bear Heart is the winner, I assume that strong enemies use more magical damage in higher levels.
Last edited by Ceredh; Mar 7, 2023 @ 11:52pm
Ronin Gamer Mar 8, 2023 @ 1:04am 
Originally posted by Gaius:
Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:
I mean yes it's a really strong bonus, but I don't run a group as exclusive melee. It doesn't benefit me because of that. I'd be running a barb and probably one other melee, and the other two are likely Shadowheart and either Gale or Wyll, and I use them mostly as spell casters so that melee bonus doesn't really help them much.

Oh sure, it's pretty dependant on a melee focused party. Well, tbh one more melee with GWM already makes it probably the best barbarian spec.

I've also been playing with a savegame I have with a beast ranger and the Crow now can also use a ranged attack that causes advantage againt the target with ALL attacks, so even more flexible - but, of corse, the barbarian himself does more damage than the ranger and the pet combined.
I prefer bear. Get to hit things with a nice 2hander with GWM and be a tanky bastard with my dwarf. Best of both worlds there for me personally.
Ronin Gamer Mar 8, 2023 @ 1:10am 
Originally posted by Ceredh:
The question was which subclass deals more damage. I think currently it goes to the melee Beastmaster Ranger. That the Barbarian has some other advantages (partly literally) is correct, thankfully, because I will probably play as one. BTW, if Sharpshooter is in the release as feat (it has to in my opinion), the Dex based ranged Ranger has a nice damage option too, currently he sucks a bit (worst is Hunter).

The Beastmaster Ranger will always be more versatile however. And a pet, especially a flying pet, is a huge asset for the group. On the boat to Grymforge for example I usually send Wylls imp near the ranged dwarfs, immediately they go from killing one char with their multiple shots to missing all or most shots. You can heavily reduce the effectivity of ranged and casters this way.

Getting advantage surely is a huge thing, especially if you are playing with Karmic Dice disabled (like me), as hitting foes with higher AC gets a lot more difficult then. So the Wolf Heart is nice for a group with some other melee in it. Without a second melee it's a waste, as are most of the other Wildheart options. Bear Heart or Berserker are the strongest Barbarians in my opinion. Maybe in the longer run Bear Heart is the winner, I assume that strong enemies use more magical damage in higher levels.
As someone who doesn't get a hard on for raw damage and considers versatility in build options a better aspect personally, going to say I think you are devaluing ranger a tad in some respects. They don't need to be wielding a 2hander. Their high degree of options help them in various ways that raw damage isn't always going to assist with.
As for the subclasses, I usually just go without the pet because I have a bias against them from games where it was real time and the pet would cause problems if I didn't micromanage the damn thing. Turn based is much easier, so maybe I'll consider it, but I do like the amount of build options the non pet way has to go.
dolby Mar 8, 2023 @ 2:01am 
You can get that to hit improvements elsewhere easly at times for free. from all sorts of things so yeah not worth it by itself and movement is just something it's nice to have but far far from need have.
Lord Adorable Mar 8, 2023 @ 2:27am 
Originally posted by .Master Jiren, The Strongest:
if you think thats good wait til you learn 5e has a spell called Wish.
I know that spell! I tried wishing to not be maidenless but than I got attacked by horrible creatures from beyond the walls of irreality itself.

Was fun.
Blackdragon Mar 8, 2023 @ 3:32am 
Originally posted by .Master Jiren, The Strongest:
if you think thats good wait til you learn 5e has a spell called Wish.

Wish has been gutted in 5e. And it was never the best killing spell, just the best utility spell. A Meteor Swarm with stacked bonuses (like Tempest Cleric + Draconic Sorcerer + Elemental Spell) will slay everything in sight, something Wish can't do and something that is usually far more valuable than anything Wish can do.
Gaius Mar 8, 2023 @ 7:03am 
Originally posted by dolby:
You can get that to hit improvements elsewhere easly at times for free. from all sorts of things so yeah not worth it by itself and movement is just something it's nice to have but far far from need have.

Do list them please, I'm trying to maximize my knowledge before release. Of course potions, etc, are huge buffs, but they are temporary and also stack, so they don't become useless.

To my knowledge (other than ranged from high ground) basically bless in your party + advantage to attack rolls - something I found no other passive and permament aura capable of doing - seem to be the easiest, cheaper and most reliable way to hit (and abuse the GWM -5 penalty). And you can do that without even using a slot with a cleric because a Wolfheart Barb + a Pally can make a brutally damaging and borderline unkillable front line.
Last edited by Gaius; Mar 8, 2023 @ 7:05am
mods twist his balls (Banned) Mar 8, 2023 @ 7:41am 
Wolfheart Barb+ 3 Rogue/Ranger Multiclass = sneak attack every single turn. That sounds hype af
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Date Posted: Mar 6, 2023 @ 7:19am
Posts: 21