How "strict" is the class system?

[Veritas]

Title. I'm not very familiar with DnD 5E rulesets and i've not followed BG3 dev closely to avoid spoiling the story, but i am interested to know if classes can still pick up lots of utility (like in DoS2, Peace of Mind was basically mandatory on everyone) without deviating from their core class too heavily (i.e. spending too much on dump stats and becoming too weak overall).

[Gaius]

Classes are very strict.

You'll not make a good character with 2 points in 4 classes like you could in DoS 2 , it would en up being worthless due to how the number of attacks and spell slot system works.

While you can mix and match if you have the pre-requisite stats, considering just PHB subclasses you'll probably not want to mix more than 2 classes in multiclassing, it cost a lot in terms of leveling and spell/skill acquisition.

In 5e you cannot just pick and choose the best abilities, you gotta play with the tools that class gives you.

In the end of the day I kinda like it, makes for less homogeneous characters.

Edited for correction and clarity.

[Dragon Master]

Fairly strict.

Each class has unique class features and abilities, and the only way to get them is to be that class. Only rogues get sneak attack, only fighters get action surge, only paladins can smite, only sorcerers can use metamagic, only wizards can learn spells from scrolls, only bards can give inspiration, only druids can wildshape.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

You can level more than one class which get you whatever you're looking for, but you won't reach the max level cap in either class.

[zenebatos1]

DnD as never really moved away from its basics from the 70's, wich was amongst the Foundations of "RPG"ing.

So yeah, no Freeform/classless progression.

But it still offer some leeway to custimize a bit around your Build, it comes in the forms of spell choices, Weapons and gear and Feats.

Not much from the classes themselfs, cause outside a few Subclasses, there is very little differences between a Devotion paladin and a Vengeance Paladin, both subclasses have the Default features of the paladin, just some Subclass features are added on top of it (like 4 or 5 depending on the subclass)

You can Add Multiclassing on top of that to come up with ways to customize a Character or to stick ot a Theme/Concept.

But it does require some knowledge and planning.

Multiclassing (or MCing for shorts) is quite simple, when you have enough XP to get a new level, you can decide to get a level in a new class instead of the one you started with.

Usually there's a requirement rule, like if you wanna MC into Wizard, you need to have 13INT minimum or into Bard 13 CHA etc.

[zenebatos1]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

You can level more than one class which get you whatever you're looking for, but you won't reach the max level cap in either class.

Wichis ok honestly

When you MC, you trade in the class lvl20 Cap ability for other features

And Quite frankly, 80% of the Cap abilites from ALL classes sucks balls anyways...

One of the few that doesn't suck is the "Avengin Angel" from the Vengeance Pally...

[Sogreth]

Originally posted by Gaius:

Classes are very strict. You'll not make a good character with 2 points in 4 classes like you could in DoS 2. At most 2 classes in multiclassing and it cost a lot in terms of leveling and spell/skill acquisition.

In 5e you cannot just pick and choose the best abilities, you gotta play with the tools that class gives you.

In the end of the day I kinda like it, makes for less homogeneous characters.

No?

For what we currently have, yes. Because we can only hit Lv5. But 5e in general is quite the opposite. Especially when you compare it to older versions of D&D. Some of the strongest classes are multiclasses.

And considering most campaigns rarely take you to Lv20 anyways (where everyone is practically a God).

Maybe I'm just spoiled because I came from BG1&2 where you couldn't even make an Elf Paladin. Or a multiclassed Human. But 5e feels VERY free in terms on classes.

[Meowella]

Originally posted by Snazzy Dragon:

Title. I'm not very familiar with DnD 5E rulesets and i've not followed BG3 dev closely to avoid spoiling the story, but i am interested to know if classes can still pick up lots of utility (like in DoS2, Peace of Mind was basically mandatory on everyone) without deviating from their core class too heavily (i.e. spending too much on dump stats and becoming too weak overall).

In DOS, everybody is a spellcaster. All their actions are essentially spells in the DnD world and you can cast many many MANY things each turn.

In DnD, some classes are very vanilla and easy for people to play. Multiclassing exists to help craft out a character you can enjoy more, just be wary of the vast gap in power levels between certain setups.

Level 20 Champion Fighter hits 4 times a round for about 60 damage, doubling it several times a day.
Level 9 Sword Bard 3 Assassin Rogue 3 Gloomstalker Ranger 3 Echo Knight Fighter 2 Paladin in the surprise round hits for about 800 damage (average rolls, enough to take down a Tarrasque) in the surprise round, then drops waaaaay down to the same as the Champion.
Level 14 Necromancer Wizard 6 Oathbreaker Paladin commands their 100 skeletons to fire arrows that'll hit for about 1560 damage (but with poor to hit bonuses you'll only see about 5-25% of the attacks land, reducing it to much lower damage) every single round, unless all your skellies get blown up by a powerful enough fireball (they only have about 50hp each)

None of this would affect how you roleplay them in a tabletop session of the game, but in a video game it's far more focused on numbers.

[Gaius]

Originally posted by Sogreth:

Originally posted by Gaius:

Classes are very strict. You'll not make a good character with 2 points in 4 classes like you could in DoS 2. At most 2 classes in multiclassing and it cost a lot in terms of leveling and spell/skill acquisition.

In 5e you cannot just pick and choose the best abilities, you gotta play with the tools that class gives you.

In the end of the day I kinda like it, makes for less homogeneous characters.

No?

For what we currently have, yes. Because we can only hit Lv5. But 5e in general is quite the opposite. Especially when you compare it to older versions of D&D. Some of the strongest classes are multiclasses.

And considering most campaigns rarely take you to Lv20 anyways (where everyone is practically a God).

Maybe I'm just spoiled because I came from BG1&2 where you couldn't even make an Elf Paladin. Or a multiclassed Human. But 5e feels VERY free in terms on classes.

Agreed based on a D&D version comparison, but his point of view was from DoS2, a game where you mix and match any and everything, so compared to that, not other D&D editions, I'd say it's really strics, as in really class based. You cannot have a sneak attacker, smiting, action surge capable melee character with superiority die and 2 attacks at lv 5 (and that's the kind of shenanigans you can and will do in DoS2).

Also, we'll probably reach no more than lv 15, probably less, and the cost of multiclassing in really hard on progression, specially because, unlike in tabletop, you cannot improvise, so reaching a new spell level, havinh multiple attacks, etc, changes your capabilities a LOT - and taking 2 or 3 more levels to reach those thresholds possibly means you'll have to play 1/4 or 1/3 of the game weaker until the results start to surpass a single class character.

In a game like Pathfinder:WoTR it's really diferent because you reach lv 20 somewhat early, but in BG3 I expect multiclassing to be a sidegrade at later game, maybe a slight upgrade in case of very synergistic multiclassing, but a huge nerf in the first half, maybe 2/3 of the campaign.

[wtiger27]

Originally posted by Gaius:

Originally posted by Sogreth:

No?

For what we currently have, yes. Because we can only hit Lv5. But 5e in general is quite the opposite. Especially when you compare it to older versions of D&D. Some of the strongest classes are multiclasses.

And considering most campaigns rarely take you to Lv20 anyways (where everyone is practically a God).

Maybe I'm just spoiled because I came from BG1&2 where you couldn't even make an Elf Paladin. Or a multiclassed Human. But 5e feels VERY free in terms on classes.

Agreed based on a D&D version comparison, but his point of view was from DoS2, a game where you mix and match any and everything, so compared to that, not other D&D editions, I'd say it's really strics, as in really class based. You cannot have a sneak attacker, smiting, action surge capable melee character with superiority die and 2 attacks at lv 5 (and that's the kind of shenanigans you can and will do in DoS2).

Also, we'll probably reach no more than lv 15, probably less, and the cost of multiclassing in really hard on progression, specially because, unlike in tabletop, you cannot improvise, so reaching a new spell level, havinh multiple attacks, etc, changes your capabilities a LOT - and taking 2 or 3 more levels to reach those thresholds possibly means you'll have to play 1/4 or 1/3 of the game weaker until the results start to surpass a single class character.

In a game like Pathfinder:WoTR it's really diferent because you reach lv 20 somewhat early, but in BG3 I expect multiclassing to be a sidegrade at later game, maybe a slight upgrade in case of very synergistic multiclassing, but a huge nerf in the first half, maybe 2/3 of the campaign.

I thought I read someplace the max level for the game will be level 12. Might have been false info however. Not counting DLC's later on.

[Fluff]

Hopefully it will go as high in levels as possible, all the way to 20? Sure, give me that. But possbily lower limit and then may be DLC. Anyway the more levels the better.

[Sogreth]

Originally posted by Tusk_Luv:

Hopefully it will go as high in levels as possible, all the way to 20? Sure, give me that. But possbily lower limit and then may be DLC. Anyway the more levels the better.

I wouldn't mind if they do what Solasta does and have several campaigns ranging from different levels, with the main campaign being the largest. Or at least DLC that adds extra content, like original BG1&2 had.

IMO, once you hit Lv11, your party is pretty damn strong. So a Lv cap of 12 isn't too bad.

[Gaius]

Originally posted by wtiger27:

I thought I read someplace the max level for the game will be level 12. Might have been false info however. Not counting DLC's later on.

The official quotes from Sven are, earlier in development, lv 10, then "more than lv 10", but no exact number given.

People often discuss this and those who know D&D 5e better than me seem to agree it will probably be no more than 14.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

12 - 14.

[dolby]

There's no hard limit on how many times you can multiclass the question is will we have it in full game they said yes but you never know with this kinds of things

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by dolby:

There's no hard limit on how many times you can multiclass the question is will we have it in full game they said yes but you never know with this kinds of things

Well, technically there is a hard limit.

In the tabletop you can only ever get to character level 20. Also, there are requirements to multiclass. You can't multiclass into rogue unless you have 13 dex, for example. You need at least 13 wisdom to multiclass into cleric or druid as well.

So if you have the appropriate stats and were in a campaign to get up to level 20, no matter how many times you multiclass to get various class features, you won't get the mid to upper class features because those classes aren't a high enough level.