A lot missing ANSWERED

[Red Shirt]

So it's set in the Forgotten Realms. So are most of my wet dreams. Here's what it needs to be Baldur's Gate 3.

1) A pause button. Seriously, the time just keeps slipping away even if you go to the main menu. Lame. I understand you want us to feel some urgency in the story, like the characters. It needs a pause button.
Time doesn't advance until you long rest

2) Parties are too small. Every Baldur's Gate game is made up of 6 party members. Icewind Dale is 6 party members. This isn't even an issue in D&D where parties can be as big as a DM allows but usually 8 people. How can you even build a balanced party with 4 characters? Again, a lame mechanic to force some feeling on the players so they identify with the characters?
Mods will expand that to 6. They already exist for similar games so, a certainty

3) Leveling is slow and levels are capped too low. My first sort of serious battle and I'm getting hammered within a few rounds. These monsters aren't even that tough in TT D&D but the painfully low level of my characters makes them tougher than dragons. I looked up some strategies and it turns out there aren't even that many levels to earn. It's like the devs were faced with including more content than they had time for so they just cut that out by limiting level progression.
Only for early access

4) Constant on screen dice rolls. You want us to feel some apprehension at a dice roll, similar to the table top experience but there is little actual consequence when a critical miss or hit is just a miss or a little more damage. Solution? Make them sit through every roll with no option to hide that or skip it.
Skip with space bar

5) Insanely complex maps and areas. I hate walkthroughs but I'm starting to wonder if you can completely explore an area in this game without one. Not so in Baldur's Gate 1 or 2. At least in those you got to choose when you left an area. In this one if you progress the story before you're done with an area... tough!
Unfortunately for me, that's gaming today

6) Confusing quest line. So we're looking for a cure? Is it here? No? Over there? Who knows. I'm not sure where I'm going or why or what to do there when I get there. I'm sure plenty of people have it figured out but not me and not the people I know that have played. Then again we're all older and were teenagers when the original games were made so maybe it's not for us?
Self-created issue because I thought there was a clock on the quest and the story isn't complete and won't be until full release.

7) Camera angles and swings etc. Makes me actually nauseous. I miss fixed camera.
Camera fixes still incoming

8) Zero difficulty adjustment. Show me a Baldur's Gate game without a difficulty setting and you've just showed me this game. Most of my complaints are aimed at the excessive difficulty which can't be changed at all. One difficulty allowed, the one the devs like.
Only in early access

8 part 2 or 9) The magic and skills system is too complex in some ways and not diverse enough in others. This is also related to not having more party members at once. I need a fighter x2, cleric, mage, thief at the minimum but I get 4 characters that are not very good at any of those unless it's the one I made at character creation.
Difficulty setting will help in full release, plus mods to increase party size

10) Inadequate skill points. No way around this one. I guess this is the way it is in Divinity, but I didn't buy this to play Divinity. Here I am dying to play my fighter with 18 skill points in the three primary stats for a fighter, even if he's dumb as rocks. NOPE. Average all the way around is best I can get.
Skill rolling in full release

Thanks to Rusty and the others that actually addressed my complaints/questions/gripes with real feedback instead of one-liner quips designed to illicit and emotional response.

[Quillithe]

Hobocop eredeti hozzászólása:

Pandemonium eredeti hozzászólása:

BG 1 is D&D 3.5 partially and the rest is D&D 2e. Same for BG2. BG2 is the continuation of 1. It's called BG because it's a sequel.

No. Both BG games were pretty much entirely AD&D 2e. Icewind Dale 2 was the only Infinity Engine era title to use 3rd edition.

I think some of the ToB high level abilities are kinda 3E inspired too? Could be very easily wrong though.

[Red Shirt]

Quillithe eredeti hozzászólása:

Hobocop eredeti hozzászólása:

No. Both BG games were pretty much entirely AD&D 2e. Icewind Dale 2 was the only Infinity Engine era title to use 3rd edition.

I think some of the ToB high level abilities are kinda 3E inspired too? Could be very easily wrong though.

I have mad respect for those people that can remember all the details of D&D from the various versions. My brain just can't. If it weren't for manuals, and forgiving DMs, I would be totally lost.

[Quillithe]

Pandemonium eredeti hozzászólása:

Lord Adorable eredeti hozzászólása:

I mean, you got your answer, no? I don't think anyone is bothered by that.
Instead you managed to reveal that this was nothing but a troll post. Good job.

Actually it started out as a legitimate complaint thread but everyone decided to take it personal so yeah. I turned my don't care on and poked back as much as possible because you try to troll me.

This forum gets a lot of trollish complaints, so people tend to be a bit...aggressive in their assumptions rather often.

The problem is that if you engage in response they'll just take that as confirmation that they were right.

Besides, Steam forums aren't know for their calm and reasonable discussions lol

[Quillithe]

Pandemonium eredeti hozzászólása:

Quillithe eredeti hozzászólása:

I think some of the ToB high level abilities are kinda 3E inspired too? Could be very easily wrong though.

I have mad respect for those people that can remember all the details of D&D from the various versions. My brain just can't. If it weren't for manuals, and forgiving DMs, I would be totally lost.

Oops, obviously me too. I was curious and I checked. Guess I'm entirely wrong, there's some 2e rulebook they are vaguely connected to, though mostly Bioware original.

I'm 0/2 in this thread lol

[Red Shirt]

Quillithe eredeti hozzászólása:

Pandemonium eredeti hozzászólása:

Actually it started out as a legitimate complaint thread but everyone decided to take it personal so yeah. I turned my don't care on and poked back as much as possible because you try to troll me.

This forum gets a lot of trollish complaints, so people tend to be a bit...aggressive in their assumptions rather often.

The problem is that if you engage in response they'll just take that as confirmation that they were right.

Besides, Steam forums aren't know for their calm and reasonable discussions lol

Noted. I have never really taken part in any Steam forum discussions so it's been a learning experience. I believe I leveled up from it. I can't say I'll be eager to return. I'm glad I learned what I did though about the game. I'm likely to give it another shot and certainly play after full release. If I had but known the response would be so vigorous I would have worded it differently. Then again it would probably still have gotten aggressive responses.

Also, I'm tempted to leave it up because I've seen more than a few bad reviews with similarly misinformed view points. If those people happen by this thread they may give it another go.

[Red Shirt]

Vixzian eredeti hozzászólása:

Pandemonium eredeti hozzászólása:

Claimed I didn't insult anyone in the OP. Insults are free once that line is crossed. Can you read?

Don't feed the troll. There are a couple of them whose behavior is not going unnoticed. Just let them get entangled in their own rope.

Which reminds me, I picked up a rope early on. Will I ever need it to descend a cave or climb out of trouble? If I already can I missed how.

[Heu, Iterum Id Feci]

Pandemonium eredeti hozzászólása:

Vixzian eredeti hozzászólása:

Which still completely flies in the face of this statement ....

I'm so confused and it's late. There are obviously a lot of very strong opinions out there. Was the original BG the perfect incarnation of TTD&D? No. Is it possible to translate a dynamic table top role-playing experience into a video game? No. Thanks for the troll warning.

It's the age old question of RtwP vs TB games, and I'm on Hobocops side in that regard. RtwP is the worst attempt at creating a D&D Gameplay. I never finished a single RtwP title, despite buying a bunch and trying over and over again.
RtwP games only get somewhat playable for me when turning on all kinds of autopauses, at which point they become a less structurized and more chaotic TB game, usually with simplified encounter design to accomodate for the action crowd.
That gameplay really badly resonated with my ADHD. TB on the other hand helps me by turning the gameplay in digestible chunks.
But even turning it full action into something more diablo like for example would have improved those games considerably for me. For me RtwP takes the worst of both worlds and combines it to a much worse experience.
An that's a critique many original D&D fans had against RtwP Games from the very beginning. For many BG1 represent the start of the downfall of RPGs in the direction of more and more videogamified action gameplay you can see in the development of the bioware games. BG led to nwn, led to kotor led to dragon age and mass effect, moving further and further away from anything TTRPG-Like. A lot of good Video games, don't get me wrong, but undeniably less and less RPG in the sense of where they started from.

[Quillithe]

(っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ Rusty ♥ eredeti hozzászólása:

RtwP games only get somewhat playable for me when turning on all kinds of autopauses, at which point they become a less structurized and more chaotic TB game, usually with simplified encounter design to accomodate for the action crowd.

Personally they can also work pretty well with good AI scripting like PoE 2.

Of course the drawback there is that in most fights you don't need to really do anything if you have decent scripts.

[Lord Adorable]

(っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ Rusty ♥ eredeti hozzászólása:

Pandemonium eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm so confused and it's late. There are obviously a lot of very strong opinions out there. Was the original BG the perfect incarnation of TTD&D? No. Is it possible to translate a dynamic table top role-playing experience into a video game? No. Thanks for the troll warning.

It's the age old question of RtwP vs TB games, and I'm on Hobocops side in that regard. RtwP is the worst attempt at creating a D&D Gameplay. I never finished a single RtwP title, despite buying a bunch and trying over and over again.
RtwP games only get somewhat playable for me when turning on all kinds of autopauses, at which point they become a less structurized and more chaotic TB game, usually with simplified encounter design to accomodate for the action crowd.
That gameplay really badly resonated with my ADHD. TB on the other hand helps me by turning the gameplay in digestible chunks.
But even turning it full action into something more diablo like for example would have improved those games considerably for me. For me RtwP takes the worst of both worlds and combines it to a much worse experience.
An that's a critique many original D&D fans had against RtwP Games from the very beginning. For many BG1 represent the start of the downfall of RPGs in the direction of more and more videogamified action gameplay you can see in the development of the bioware games. BG led to nwn, led to kotor led to dragon age and mass effect, moving further and further away from anything TTRPG-Like. A lot of good Video games, don't get me wrong, but undeniably less and less RPG in the sense of where they started from.

The problem with RtwP gameplay is that enemy AI will often just run at you and do little else. Maybe do an action or two but otherwise they will just walk up to you and try to fuse themselves to your party while throwing basic hands.

And since you're just gonna pause like a few dozen times every 5 seconds to commit an action you might as well just have a turn-based game.

It's easily the worst of both worlds and I despise it despite repeated attempts to find something to like about it.
Story and characters in BG1 and 'BG2' are good. Actual gameplay is abyssmal, dated and most damning of all, boring, And a game with boring gameplay is a cardinal sin.

[larhtas]

I don't really play RtwP like that. Yes i pause sometimes but the first thing i did was giving an AI to my archer and front line character to attack everything at sight. Then i select one mage and time to time i cast ... You're gonna believe i'm gonna wrote fireball? Well bad guess!, cause i only cast dispel magic. Then i just look at everyone smashed by my chars...
I have only played dispel magic in bg2. In BG1 ... i don't remind what i was doing with my mages. I think i was looking at them missing their targets with their slings.

[Heu, Iterum Id Feci]

larhtas eredeti hozzászólása:

I don't really play RtwP like that. Yes i pause sometimes but the first thing i did was giving an AI to my archer and front line character to attack everything at sight. Then i select one mage and time to time i cast ... You're gonna believe i'm gonna wrote fireball? Well bad guess!, cause i only cast dispel magic. Then i just look at everyone smashed by my chars...
I have only played dispel magic in bg2. In BG1 ... i don't remind what i was doing with my mages. I think i was looking at them missing their targets with their slings.

That's all fine and well. If you liked that and it was fun for you, good for you. However for me rtwp never was an enjoyable experience. And that's fine to. I'm sad I'll never actually finish the story, but that's just how it be. C'est la vie. No game is made to appeal to everyone, and those who tried to appeal to everyone always were crap games.
There is no right or wrong answer in the question if RtwP or TB is better objectively, as it is a completely subjective matter of taste. And I happen to vastly prefer TB over rtwp any time.

[larhtas]

(っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ Rusty ♥ eredeti hozzászólása:

That's all fine and well. If you liked that and it was fun for you, good for you. However for me rtwp never was an enjoyable experience. And that's fine to. I'm sad I'll never actually finish the story, but that's just how it be. C'est la vie. No game is made to appeal to everyone, and those who tried to appeal to everyone always were crap games.
There is no right or wrong answer in the question if RtwP or TB is better objectively, as it is a completely subjective matter of taste. And I happen to vastly prefer TB over rtwp any time.

Indeed. The strange stuff is. RtwP was fun to me for a time. Like 15 years ago. Now when i'm playing one, i don't get fun anymore, i couldn't finish the first pathfinder until they brought turn based. The lasts games i've bought recently are all turn-based.
I began to like them with "the temple of elemental evil" that i consider to be one of the greatest.

[Lord Adorable]

larhtas eredeti hozzászólása:

(っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ Rusty ♥ eredeti hozzászólása:

That's all fine and well. If you liked that and it was fun for you, good for you. However for me rtwp never was an enjoyable experience. And that's fine to. I'm sad I'll never actually finish the story, but that's just how it be. C'est la vie. No game is made to appeal to everyone, and those who tried to appeal to everyone always were crap games.
There is no right or wrong answer in the question if RtwP or TB is better objectively, as it is a completely subjective matter of taste. And I happen to vastly prefer TB over rtwp any time.

Indeed. The strange stuff is. RtwP was fun to me for a time. Like 15 years ago. Now when i'm playing one, i don't get fun anymore, i couldn't finish the first pathfinder until they brought turn based. The lasts games i've bought recently are all turn-based.
I began to like them with "the temple of elemental evil" that i consider to be one of the greatest.

Parodn me butting in, but turn-based games have been my fire lately as well.
Blood Bowl 2, Baldur's Gate 3. Age of Wonders 3 and Planetfall. Master of Magic. Solasta, Total War: Warhammer III to a degree though the main pull is still real-time battles.

They're all pretty darn great. DO NOT play Blood Bowl 2 if you expect anything but pain and misery though!

[larhtas]

Lord Adorable eredeti hozzászólása:

Pardon me butting in, but turn-based games have been my fire lately as well.
Blood Bowl 2, Baldur's Gate 3. Age of Wonders 3 and Planetfall. Master of Magic. Solasta, Total War: Warhammer III to a degree though the main pull is still real-time battles.

They're all pretty darn great. DO NOT play Blood Bowl 2 if you expect anything but pain and misery though!

You are most welcome to button in. I didn't played those games (except BG3). I did a try to a lot of indie games with low graphism (because i don't bother low graphism) which most of them is or was in early access (that why it make me laugh when people are crying about EA to long and are speaking like they are EA pro... They are by definition not).
One of the greatest i've played is Urtuk the desolation. It's super hard until you understand all the mechanics, the game is a jewel (by my definition) and was in early access almost 3 years.
I've tried:
- Banner of ruins (not super good).
- Solasta (very ok).
- Darkest dungeon (excellent)
- Iratus lord of dead (almost ok)
- Legend of keeper (not super good)
- Monster train (good but no replayability)
- Rogue lord (not super good)
- Roguebook (good)
- Wartales (good)
- Wildermyth (beautiful and fun)

[dulany67]

dulany67 eredeti hozzászólása:

You've made a lot of assumptions that are not reality.

Pan Darius Kairos eredeti hozzászólása:

A lot of your issues will be solved at release, in August.

I'm too bored to go through each of your points one by one.

Pan and I answered this thread in the first 2 responses. I'm glad someone was nice enough to explain why you were wrong, and relieve you of any responsibility to do even a little research on your own.