WHere are ice spells?

[dolby]

I'm gonna do a new playthrough now so it's winter and it's snowing outside and i was thinking a ice party!
But then i just realized there isn't much to chose from when it comes to ice spells
Why is that?
Do people just don't like those or what ? Why are cold spell so rare in 5e?
Is the whole idea to just reskin the spells or what?

Armor Of Agathys looks cools on paper but 5 hp isn't much and a slot spell for one hit effect i don't know... am i missing something ?

Larian please homebrew me some ice spells... and looking at Mourning Frost this staff needs abit of love! :)

[Dusk_Army]

Pan Darius Kairos a écrit :

sevensided a écrit :

Most of them are only cold damage by chance. The list of true cold damage spells is... slim.

What does that even mean, "by chance"?

The damage of Chaos Bolt and Prismatic Spray is determined randomly by die roll. It might do Cold, but it also might be one of several other elements. Several of the other ones listed have Cold damage as an option, but they are not dedicated Cold spells the way Fireball is a dedicated Fire spell or Chain Lighting is a dedicated Electricity spell.

I'm not about to do a deep dive of how many spells there are by element, but suffice to say that some damage types are absolutely more common than others (and this has been true since at least 3rd edition D&D, probably earlier). But it's less of an issue in an actual tabletop setting where your DM can just say, "You want to learn a spell called Deathball that functions exactly like Fireball, but deals Necrotic damage? Sure, go for it."

[spamfilter32]

Surprised no one has mentioned Otilukes Freezing Sphere.

There used to be a metamagic feat in 3rd ed that allowed you to substitute one element type for another, so a Frost Ball was possible, but no such feat in 5th ed. 3.5 also had the Frost Burn book (official WotC supplement) which expanded a lot on frost/cold spells, magic items monsters and feats. I am not aware of them releasing any similar content for 5th ed.

[Hobocop]

spamfilter32 a écrit :

There used to be a metamagic feat in 3rd ed that allowed you to substitute one element type for another, so a Frost Ball was possible, but no such feat in 5th ed.

With Tasha's, there is. Both a Sorcerer metamagic that lets you change energy damage types and a feat to gain a couple of metamagics and a limited supply of sorcery points to fuel them.

[dolby]

sevensided a écrit :

There is indeed a dearth of cold damage spells, and as pointed out earlier, most were not in the PHB.
What there is, in 5e, in order of level-
Ray of Frost, Frostbite, Chaos Bolt (potentially), Chromatic Orb (Possibly), Frost Fingers (Basically burning hands but with cold), Ice Knife, Dragon's Breath (Possibly), Binding Ice, Snowball Swarm, Elemental Weapon (possibly), Glyph of Warding (Possibly), Hunger of Hadar, Spirit Shroud (Possibly), Fire Shield (Ironically, Possibly), Ice Storm, Cone of Cold, Freezing Sphere, Wall of Ice, Prismatic Spray (possibly), Prismatic Wall (possibly), Storm of Vengeance (if you can maintain it long enough).

That's not a lot, and many of them are 'possibly' cold damage, either by chance or choice, and most not in the PHB. I don't expect many of these to make it into the game via Larian, but for sure by mods - a lot already are in mods.

Sleet Storm is not damaging, BUT, aside from the benefits already listed (dousing flames, obscuring sight, difficult terrain, making things prone) it also forces concentration checks, making it one of the better ways to break an opponents concentration, especially if its a group of magic users (Magic missile is probably the best single target way to break concentration).

I do hope, though, that many of those cold damage spells make it in. I would love to do an icy draconic sorcerer in Larian's system.

yeah i know about those and if all those would be available it would be indeed great stuff! i guess we gonna get around half of that.

So far i think they are only adding the orginal spells with a bit of homebrewing here or there so i'm hoping something gets added... Cos when playing themed character it's nice to have a few options the more the better.

[dolby]

Jiren, The Strongest a écrit :

Lots of engaging topics here, i'll do my best not to repeat what has already been said. I'm only going to hit on a couple points.

First, the OP is correct that reskinning spells is a part of DnD, and, to their point, cannot be done so well in BG3. The closest you could get is a Wizard, I forget which subclass it is, but one of the wizards can change the damage type of their spells, so, all your spells can be ice damage. In normal DnD, you can flavor your attacks any way that you want so long as it does not grant you additional advantages mechanically, you could also bargain with your DM to let you learn spells in unusual ways, like if you chose to be a frost specialist, you could make a case that you want to learn Fireball, but, you want it to be Frost instead, thus, every time you cast that spell it will only ever be frost and cannot be changed, bargains like that can be made with a DM though they are rare, some DMs allow little things like that. But Baldurs Gate 3 won't have such an option, i'm 99.999% sure. However, Mods will exist that will possibly offer you different options. If enough topics get made on the forums, modders may see an outcry for specialists, and you may, one day, find mods that create element based spellcaster subclasses that let you have different elemental versions of your favorite spells.

i think you can only change it with the sorcerer? I guess it would be metamagic not sure if it's in the orginal phb probably not. (oh nvm it was already posted apparently it was in Tasha's)
I mean reskining makes sense to me if you can reskin a weapon why not this. Nothing wrong with it if you ask me. I guess it's up to Dm... Aslong as you do it at the start and not during fights like you said.... Sadly that's not really an option for video games not really well i guess that would be mods and those exist already for bg 3 .
Problem is lots of them are broken op and all over the place cos people go way overboard with damage and power:))

But yeah, if you have time and the will for mods sure but that would be a different topic, cos mods are not really part of the game for alot of players.

on aside note In bg 3 the damage of ice spells is more then fine due to water debuff even if some spells will have ♥♥♥ saves.. and i'm sure we will get more "ice"themed items. we have the whole line up for lightning items..

[dolby]

Dusk_Army a écrit :

Pan Darius Kairos a écrit :

What does that even mean, "by chance"?

The damage of Chaos Bolt and Prismatic Spray is determined randomly by die roll. It might do Cold, but it also might be one of several other elements. Several of the other ones listed have Cold damage as an option, but they are not dedicated Cold spells the way Fireball is a dedicated Fire spell or Chain Lighting is a dedicated Electricity spell.

I'm not about to do a deep dive of how many spells there are by element, but suffice to say that some damage types are absolutely more common than others (and this has been true since at least 3rd edition D&D, probably earlier). But it's less of an issue in an actual tabletop setting where your DM can just say, "You want to learn a spell called Deathball that functions exactly like Fireball, but deals Necrotic damage? Sure, go for it."

i guess people are fine with fireballs hehe most of the time...i just find it boring to use same spell all the time and this playthough just proved me right. Way more funy when you don't just use max damage optimal spells Or GWM and two handed weapons for melee.. It's a nice change of pace casting fay of frost instead of firebolt all the time.

it's funny the other day i was looking at reistances for monsters and those are not on the same level either... The poison looks just said right there hehe

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1X70jdBX0X0n_5V7stc1_kYERXLNGJIbdjhl3BUbKxQI/edit#gid=0

[RealDealBreaker]

dolby a écrit :

Batailleuse a écrit :

Why not ? any class can get access to medium armor pretty easily. which also give access to shield.

But it stings that ray of frost doesn't actually have mutiple rays at higher levels.. or at least be a 1d10 not really sure why it's called a ray... Normaly those have more then one sadly not the case here.

Not really. The only 'ray' spell in d&d that comes to mind that has multiple rays is the level two spell Scorching Ray. Ray of Frost, Ray of Enfeeblement, and Ray of Sickness (the only other 'ray' spells) are all single rays. So 'normally' ray spells are strictly single target.

[dolby]

RealDealBreaker a écrit :

dolby a écrit :

But it stings that ray of frost doesn't actually have mutiple rays at higher levels.. or at least be a 1d10 not really sure why it's called a ray... Normaly those have more then one sadly not the case here.

Not really. The only 'ray' spell in d&d that comes to mind that has multiple rays is the level two spell Scorching Ray. Ray of Frost, Ray of Enfeeblement, and Ray of Sickness (the only other 'ray' spells) are all single rays. So 'normally' ray spells are strictly single target.

clear not proven by Scorching Ray...the staple spell in dnd

[RealDealBreaker]

dolby a écrit :

RealDealBreaker a écrit :

Not really. The only 'ray' spell in d&d that comes to mind that has multiple rays is the level two spell Scorching Ray. Ray of Frost, Ray of Enfeeblement, and Ray of Sickness (the only other 'ray' spells) are all single rays. So 'normally' ray spells are strictly single target.

clear not proven by Scorching Ray...the staple spell in dnd

Clearly you didn't read. I literally stated that Scorching Ray is the exception, and the sole exception at that, to ray spells being single target.

[dolby]

RealDealBreaker a écrit :

dolby a écrit :

clear not proven by Scorching Ray...the staple spell in dnd

Clearly you didn't read. I literally stated that Scorching Ray is the exception, and the sole exception at that, to ray spells being single target.

Prismatic Spray

Eight multicolored rays of light flash from your hand. Each ray is a different color and has a different power and purpose. Each creature in a 60-foot cone must make a Dexterity saving throw. For each target, roll a d8 to determine which color ray affects it.....

so clearly not the Sole exception at that hehe ray spell uses mutiple rays nothing wrong with it at all.

Anyway, no point in talking to you about any of this cos we had this before... the second someone suggestes anything to be added or changed to the rules, you go on defensive side.


But if Larian does it aor wizzard of cost does it's fine... We literary had the same conversation in the past about concentration and it turns out that my suggestion that i made at the time is now directly ported into one DnD as i made it at the time... SO i woudl say my suggeestion are spot on...

[RealDealBreaker]

dolby a écrit :

RealDealBreaker a écrit :

Clearly you didn't read. I literally stated that Scorching Ray is the exception, and the sole exception at that, to ray spells being single target.

Prismatic Spray

Eight multicolored rays of light flash from your hand. Each ray is a different color and has a different power and purpose. Each creature in a 60-foot cone must make a Dexterity saving throw. For each target, roll a d8 to determine which color ray affects it.....

so clearly not the Sole exception at that hehe ray spell uses mutiple rays nothing wrong with it at all.

Anyway, no point in talking to you about any of this cos we had this before... the second someone suggestes anything to be added or changed to the rules, you go on defensive side.


But if Larian does it aor wizzard of cost does it's fine... We literary had the same conversation in the past about concentration and it turns out that my suggestion that i made at the time is now directly ported into one DnD as i made it at the time... SO i woudl say my suggeestion are spot on...

I made no commentary on the merits of your suggestion. I was pointing out your flawed logic. Even if I were to concede that prismatic spray is a ray spell just because it uses the word ray in the description (when mechanically it is a cone shaped field that applies a random effect as opposed to a targeted ray or beam), that is still only 2 possible multi-target vs 3 single target spells. That makes it rather hard to claim that "ray spells normally have multiple rays."

As for your suggestion itself, I couldn't care less whether RoF was single target that scaled damage with level like most cantrips or if it went to additional targets and to-hit rolls like eldritch blast does as it scales.

And One D&D is changing concentration? I haven't been following closely but all I can find is that some spells are changing to require concentration and some others losing it (e.g., apparently in the cleric or priest pack - whatever it was called - spiritual weapon was changed to now require concentration). Can you point me to where the change to concentration as a mechanic is?

[sevensided]

dolby a écrit :

RealDealBreaker a écrit :

Clearly you didn't read. I literally stated that Scorching Ray is the exception, and the sole exception at that, to ray spells being single target.

Prismatic Spray

Prismatic Spray is mechanically a cone, not a ray, or series of rays, despite the fluff, ie, non mechanics portion, description. The Ray family of spells are all targeted spells, requiring attack rolls to hit. That said, Ray spells have less mechanical distinction in 5e than they did in 3e, so the term 'ray family of spells' is a bordering on specious as is. So normally, 'rays' are indeed single bolts.

[spamfilter32]

sevensided a écrit :

dolby a écrit :

Prismatic Spray

Prismatic Spray is mechanically a cone, not a ray, or series of rays, despite the fluff, ie, non mechanics portion, description. The Ray family of spells are all targeted spells, requiring attack rolls to hit. That said, Ray spells have less mechanical distinction in 5e than they did in 3e, so the term 'ray family of spells' is a bordering on specious as is. So normally, 'rays' are indeed single bolts.

Scortching Ray is also poorly worded. You "create 3 rays and hurl them..." you don't "hurl" rays you point your finger and a lazer beem shoots out and delivers an effect if you hit. In many ways it is more like a more powerful, tripled, version of Produce Flame that you can't carry with you.