WHere are ice spells?

[dolby]

I'm gonna do a new playthrough now so it's winter and it's snowing outside and i was thinking a ice party!
But then i just realized there isn't much to chose from when it comes to ice spells
Why is that?
Do people just don't like those or what ? Why are cold spell so rare in 5e?
Is the whole idea to just reskin the spells or what?

Armor Of Agathys looks cools on paper but 5 hp isn't much and a slot spell for one hit effect i don't know... am i missing something ?

Larian please homebrew me some ice spells... and looking at Mourning Frost this staff needs abit of love! :)

[Ghost]

The temp. hitpoints and the damage increase by 5 for each spell slot. So 10 at 2, 15 at 3 etc.
If you're a warlock it'll always be cast at your max level.
It lasts for an hour and if any of those points remain, you'll always get the full, free damage - no saves or rolls to hit required. It also has a lot of synergy.

As for other ice spells, yeah there doesn't seem to be a lot of them. Hadn't really thought about that before.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Ghost:

The temp. hitpoints and the damage increase by 5 for each spell slot. So 10 at 2, 15 at 3 etc.
If you're a warlock it'll always be cast at your max level.
It lasts for an hour and if any of those points remain, you'll always get the full, free damage - no saves or rolls to hit required. It also has a lot of synergy.

As for other ice spells, yeah there doesn't seem to be a lot of them. Hadn't really thought about that before.

yeah but the problem is i don't really want to be in melee do i?:) At least not in EA if we ever get muticlassing sure.. really hope we do. cos i can see that as ok spell to use for that.

This whole idea of my of having cold / ice vibe party would be a bit easier to pull off with multiclassing..


Just wish there was more ice spells like a cold version of Shocking Grasp would be cool., etc...DA;O had Winter's Grasp loved that spell same as frost step in DA:I even if the last DA game wasn't really my cup of tea.

Got myself a Chill Touch but now that's necro spell guess i gonna have to squint on one eye at least the icone looks icy.:)

Got the sorcerer Armor Of Agathys from bloodline will see if you can upcast that one as well hope you can cos if not it's gonna be said.

At least the warlock gets AoE spell hunger of hadar so that's cool... and eldritch blast looks icy not pink anymore...

Sleet Storm does no damage for some reason...

[IgnatiusJ.Reilly]

Yeah, the 1st and 2nd level spells that do cold damage weren't added until after the Player Handbook, in the Elemental Evil Player's Companion. And we've seen no non-Player's Handbook spells in game so far.

[Ghost]

In the case of Sleet Storm it's effectively a heavy version of Rain / Create Water. It's a control spell, not a damaging one. Puts out fires, makes people wet, creates fog, covers the ground in ice and breaks concentration.

As far as damage goes though, I can only think of 3 off the top of my head if we're not counting things like Chromatic Orb: Ray of Frost, Cone of Cold and Ice Storm.

[dolby]

Well coming to druid gates and so far the heavy lifting of the party was done by ranger using ice arrows and the raven, just used last arrow though and by sorcerer with Chromatic Orb...

Works surprisingly good all around especially if you can get stuff wet and it looks ok whole party is icy same as battlefield 24/7 ice everywhere. Commander was cake walk... he was prone all the time lol

just yeah a few extra spelll would be nice maybe and a coating for weapons cos diping into fire is kinda hm i dont know... ice weapons and items and it would be amazing.

I guess like IgnatiusJ.Reilly said maybe they could slip in something from the other books icewind dale should have something no ?? that place has plenty of snow and ice?:)

[Batailleuse]

Originally posted by dolby:

Originally posted by Ghost:

The temp. hitpoints and the damage increase by 5 for each spell slot. So 10 at 2, 15 at 3 etc.
If you're a warlock it'll always be cast at your max level.
It lasts for an hour and if any of those points remain, you'll always get the full, free damage - no saves or rolls to hit required. It also has a lot of synergy.

As for other ice spells, yeah there doesn't seem to be a lot of them. Hadn't really thought about that before.

yeah but the problem is i don't really want to be in melee do i?:) At least not in EA if we ever get muticlassing sure.. really hope we do. cos i can see that as ok spell to use for that.

why not ? any class can get access to medium armor pretty easily. which also give access to shield.

and you can wear a staff + shield + medium (or even heavy) armor without any issues as a spell caster.

if you pick a githyanki or shield dward both of those races get free medium armor from lvl 1 on any class on top of a few extra martial weapon proficiendcy (gith get blades, dward get axe/hammer)

one advantage of doing so is :

1- for medium armor, you don't need to get more than 14dex to get +2 dex bonus and use any of those Gith medium armor, which with a +2 is equivalent to having 17AC, and +2 from any shield. so 19AC, you can get 21 with some cleric giving you shield of faith. it's pretty much as tanky as any tank can get with non-magical gear or higher tier buffs during the EA.

2- if you plan heavy armor, pick one of the 2 races i mentioned, and use your first feat on heavily armored perk (which also give +1 str), doing so you can just actually dump dex to negative bonus values. but in EA you really don't get any heavy armor until pretty much the very end of chapter 1... but once you do you get 18+2 AC with heavy armor and shield. and you save about what ... 5-6 stats point to spread in other things.

Also Agathys is a one off, you get the temp hp, but the damage stays until next long rest. so basically ... you are a fairly tanky spell caster, and IF someone actually manages to hit you, they take 15 damage. even more if you play with wet and also electric spells... since wet enemies will take 100% more damage on cold/lightning. so your Agathys at lvl5 can do 30 damage EVERTIME you are hit with no limit per turn.

so when monster start to get 2 attacks per turn... if they happen to hit you twice, they also take 30-60 damage. and since this has no limit, it means on swarms of monsters with relative low hp, if one get a lucky hit, he most likely will die.

it's one of those spells like strider that do not clog a concentration slot, and provides "permanent" buff until the next time you rest. and some class don't need lot of those (eg warlock)

[Ivas]

Originally posted by Batailleuse:

Also Agathys is a one off, you get the temp hp, but the damage stays until next long rest. so basically ... you are a fairly tanky spell caster, and IF someone actually manages to hit you, they take 15 damage. even more if you play with wet and also electric spells... since wet enemies will take 100% more damage on cold/lightning. so your Agathys at lvl5 can do 30 damage EVERTIME you are hit with no limit per turn.

so when monster start to get 2 attacks per turn... if they happen to hit you twice, they also take 30-60 damage. and since this has no limit, it means on swarms of monsters with relative low hp, if one get a lucky hit, he most likely will die.

it's one of those spells like strider that do not clog a concentration slot, and provides "permanent" buff until the next time you rest. and some class don't need lot of those (eg warlock)

Armor of Agathys stops dealing damage when you lose all temporary hp. That being said, the spell is pretty good. You always can cast false life on top of it and be very tanky while damaging your attackers

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Ray of Frost, Chromatic Orb.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Batailleuse:

Originally posted by dolby:

yeah but the problem is i don't really want to be in melee do i?:) At least not in EA if we ever get muticlassing sure.. really hope we do. cos i can see that as ok spell to use for that.

Why not ? any class can get access to medium armor pretty easily. which also give access to shield.

Primarily cos it's EA and i have no access to muticlassing if that was a thing i would play around it more...

As is i would say best thing to do is stay away from threat range...and just ray frost away works cool.
But it stings that ray of frost doesn't actually have mutiple rays at higher levels.. or at least be a 1d10 not really sure why it's called a ray... Normaly those have more then one sadly not the case here.
.. but for full game sure i could make Armor of Agathys work and it's got this cold visual effect as well that helps with the theme..
The only way to get enough value out of it in EA is BladeWard and any other resistances you have. That way you can get a few hits off and luckily bladeward is easy to get.

Originally posted by Ivas:

You always can cast false life on top of it and be very tanky while damaging your attackers

That doesn't work sadly cos the higher temp hp overrides the effect i tryed it. It would be cool IF we could refuel it with other Temp points... in as long as you have temp HP it works.. Like with heroism let say if that was a thing it would be a great spell. As is, it's ok... but not that great per say.

[sevensided]

There is indeed a dearth of cold damage spells, and as pointed out earlier, most were not in the PHB.
What there is, in 5e, in order of level-
Ray of Frost, Frostbite, Chaos Bolt (potentially), Chromatic Orb (Possibly), Frost Fingers (Basically burning hands but with cold), Ice Knife, Dragon's Breath (Possibly), Binding Ice, Snowball Swarm, Elemental Weapon (possibly), Glyph of Warding (Possibly), Hunger of Hadar, Spirit Shroud (Possibly), Fire Shield (Ironically, Possibly), Ice Storm, Cone of Cold, Freezing Sphere, Wall of Ice, Prismatic Spray (possibly), Prismatic Wall (possibly), Storm of Vengeance (if you can maintain it long enough).

That's not a lot, and many of them are 'possibly' cold damage, either by chance or choice, and most not in the PHB. I don't expect many of these to make it into the game via Larian, but for sure by mods - a lot already are in mods.

Sleet Storm is not damaging, BUT, aside from the benefits already listed (dousing flames, obscuring sight, difficult terrain, making things prone) it also forces concentration checks, making it one of the better ways to break an opponents concentration, especially if its a group of magic users (Magic missile is probably the best single target way to break concentration).

I do hope, though, that many of those cold damage spells make it in. I would love to do an icy draconic sorcerer in Larian's system.

[Ivas]

Originally posted by dolby:

Originally posted by Ivas:

You always can cast false life on top of it and be very tanky while damaging your attackers

That doesn't work sadly cos the higher temp hp overrides the effect i tryed it. It would be cool IF we could refuel it with other Temp points... in as long as you have temp HP it works.. Like with heroism let say if that was a thing it would be a great spell. As is, it's ok... but not that great per say.

You know, I reread the PHB about the temp hp and turns out Larian are right. I guess I made that mistake for 5 years...

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by sevensided:

There is indeed a dearth of cold damage spells, and as pointed out earlier, most were not in the PHB.
What there is, in 5e, in order of level-
Ray of Frost, Frostbite, Chaos Bolt (potentially), Chromatic Orb (Possibly), Frost Fingers (Basically burning hands but with cold), Ice Knife, Dragon's Breath (Possibly), Binding Ice, Snowball Swarm, Elemental Weapon (possibly), Glyph of Warding (Possibly), Hunger of Hadar, Spirit Shroud (Possibly), Fire Shield (Ironically, Possibly), Ice Storm, Cone of Cold, Freezing Sphere, Wall of Ice, Prismatic Spray (possibly), Prismatic Wall (possibly), Storm of Vengeance (if you can maintain it long enough).

That's not a lot, and many of them are 'possibly' cold damage, either by chance or choice, and most not in the PHB. I don't expect many of these to make it into the game via Larian, but for sure by mods - a lot already are in mods.

Sleet Storm is not damaging, BUT, aside from the benefits already listed (dousing flames, obscuring sight, difficult terrain, making things prone) it also forces concentration checks, making it one of the better ways to break an opponents concentration, especially if its a group of magic users (Magic missile is probably the best single target way to break concentration).

I do hope, though, that many of those cold damage spells make it in. I would love to do an icy draconic sorcerer in Larian's system.

That seems like plenty to me.

[sevensided]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

That seems like plenty to me.

Most of them are only cold damage by chance. The list of true cold damage spells is... slim.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by sevensided:

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

That seems like plenty to me.

Most of them are only cold damage by chance. The list of true cold damage spells is... slim.

What does that even mean, "by chance"?

[.Master Jiren, The Strongest]

Lots of engaging topics here, i'll do my best not to repeat what has already been said. I'm only going to hit on a couple points.

First, the OP is correct that reskinning spells is a part of DnD, and, to their point, cannot be done so well in BG3. The closest you could get is a Wizard, I forget which subclass it is, but one of the wizards can change the damage type of their spells, so, all your spells can be ice damage. In normal DnD, you can flavor your attacks any way that you want so long as it does not grant you additional advantages mechanically, you could also bargain with your DM to let you learn spells in unusual ways, like if you chose to be a frost specialist, you could make a case that you want to learn Fireball, but, you want it to be Frost instead, thus, every time you cast that spell it will only ever be frost and cannot be changed, bargains like that can be made with a DM though they are rare, some DMs allow little things like that. But Baldurs Gate 3 won't have such an option, i'm 99.999% sure. However, Mods will exist that will possibly offer you different options. If enough topics get made on the forums, modders may see an outcry for specialists, and you may, one day, find mods that create element based spellcaster subclasses that let you have different elemental versions of your favorite spells.


Now, that leads me into my next point which is that there already are specialists, though not in EA and, I dont even know if any of them will be released in BG3 at all, but modders most certainly will. what am I talking about exactly? Subclasses not yet released, such as the Phoenix Sorceress, or the Deep Warlock, each with their own elemental specialty. Theres many many other subclasses that use a specific damage type, or a specific element, they will surely be released in mods, but I don't know how many subclasses we'll be getting from Larian. But mostly, you just have to roleplay and pretend, or rely on mods.

My last point will be about the ice spells already existing. Heres the problem with 5e. Most people only care about big numbers, and so fireball will always be king of spells because its the most damage per spell slot possible, the most efficient spell in the game, you could change its type to frost but only one subclass can do that normally. Each element has its own unique property, fire focuses on damage, so lets say you have 3 identical spells like Fireball, Psionic Blast, and Lightning Bolt. Fireball will always yield the highest damage because it is a fire spell. Lightning bolt is a close second but has a very narrow area making it useless in most situations. Usually, lightning damage does things like removing an opponents reactions. Necrotic damage often negates enemy healing, Radiant damage often has extra effects against Undead and sometimes other types, Poison attacks usually do low damage but inflict a status condition of Poisoned, and Acid damage usually deals its damage over time. But in the case of equal spells like Fireball and Psionic Blast, you'll notice that Psionic Blast is just a little bit weaker, but inflicts a status condition of knocking enemies prone.

This is something you'll see a lot with ice spells. Their damage wont be as high as fire, because they always have an extra effect like freezing the ground or knocking enemies prone or stunning enemies. So you ask why arent there any ice spells. Well, there are, but no one cares about them because their damage is always weaker than something else, like Ray of Frost with 1d8 vs Firebolt thats 1d10. People always choose firebolt because the -10 movement speed from Ray of Frost is not usually seen as comparably beneficial because enemies usually are up on you anyway. Typically in DnD you'll be doing encounters in a small space, usually a dungeon, so kiting opponents doesnt work very well (that means to slow your enemy with magic, run away, and keep doing so knowing they can never truly catch up to you). Eldritch Blast is king of this, because with proper invocations, your Eldritch Blast of 1d10 can push enemies back 10 ft, slow them 10 ft, and even add extra damage making it not only the most powerful cantrip, but possibly the best spell in the game for 1 v 1 because if you can fly, and if you take the right invocations and feats, you can be sniping with 600 range eldritch blasts, slowing enemies multiple times per hit, pushing enemies back multiple times per hit, making it impossible for anyone to ever approach you.

So. The point is, each spell and each element has its own specialty function. Fire happens to specialize in damage, so it always looks to be the strongest, and in most cases you'll find the extra effects that many spells have just dont quite matter as much as m0ar damage.

If they release subclasses with more specialized magic, im sure more spells will be released. I'm a fan of Ice Knife tbh.