Is the Moon Druid really nerfed?

[TrueWarlord真の武]

Been ages since I last checked on the game (I did not bought it since I don't usually buy EA games, a friend of mine has bought it and we checked together long time ago).

Did they really nerfed the Moon Druid early game form? What about the late game, any impactful change?

I understand why some people may consider starting at level 2 with as a CR 1 beast may seem too strong, but overhaul in DnD 5e tables moon druids were never that big of a deal. As soon as the party reaches level 5 it's actually fails behind and it for sure has one of the weakest level 6 to 9 (till they get elemental form and Moon Druid becomes stable again) of the entire game.

Did Larian nerfed the early game but made the mid game better? Or they just nerfed it and that is all?

[dolby]

Not sure if this will help cos i'm not gonna talk about TT comparison due to how my DND TT experience is limited...

In game they do alright,(but the game is super easy in my opinion so that doesnt really say much) My main problem as i see it is that forms do not upgrade with levels like rangers pets do so with that and that fact that your share same actions and ranger pets just have their own means that wildeshapes are worse off compared to ranger pets...



Extra problem is that you can't recast moonbeam and calll lighting in those forms.

So wildeshapes Boil down to more or less just utility with and extra hp and you are limited to a few shapes you do get, none of them have multiattack at level 5 like you get wiht Halsin NPc druid..

[TrueWarlord真の武]

Originally posted by dolby:

Not sure if this will help cos i'm not gonna talk about TT comparison due to how my DND TT experience is limited...

In game they do alright,(but the game is super easy in my opinion so that doesnt really say much) My main problem as i see it is that forms do not upgrade with levels like rangers pets do so with that and that fact that your share same actions and ranger pets just have their own means that wildeshapes are worse off compared to ranger pets...



Extra problem is that you can't recast moonbeam and calll lighting in those forms.

So wildeshapes Boil down to more or less just utility with and extra hp and you are limited to a few shapes you do get, none of them have multiattack at level 5 like you get wiht Halsin NPc druid..

When you're a Moon Druid, you only get your "next tier" of beast forms at level 6, in D&D 5e at least. The formula is, you get to wildshape up to a ND 1 beast when you chose Moon Druid at level 2, and you can wildshape up to your level divided by 3 (rounded down) ND beast after that (till you get the elemental forms at level 10).

So what I get from what you're saying is that the ND 1 bear that you will get at level 2 and keep up to level 5 has been nerfed and don't have the multiattack? Do you get a better one at level 6 at least?

This is looking worse every time I read about it.

[R3N4RD]

Originally posted by TrueWarlord真の武:

Originally posted by dolby:

Not sure if this will help cos i'm not gonna talk about TT comparison due to how my DND TT experience is limited...

In game they do alright,(but the game is super easy in my opinion so that doesnt really say much) My main problem as i see it is that forms do not upgrade with levels like rangers pets do so with that and that fact that your share same actions and ranger pets just have their own means that wildeshapes are worse off compared to ranger pets...



Extra problem is that you can't recast moonbeam and calll lighting in those forms.

So wildeshapes Boil down to more or less just utility with and extra hp and you are limited to a few shapes you do get, none of them have multiattack at level 5 like you get wiht Halsin NPc druid..

When you're a Moon Druid, you only get your "next tier" of beast forms at level 6, in D&D 5e at least. The formula is, you get to wildshape up to a ND 1 beast when you chose Moon Druid at level 2, and you can wildshape up to your level divided by 3 (rounded down) ND beast after that (till you get the elemental forms at level 10).

So what I get from what you're saying is that the ND 1 bear that you will get at level 2 and keep up to level 5 has been nerfed and don't have the multiattack? Do you get a better one at level 6 at least?

This is looking worse every time I read about it.

You are correct, while the ND 1 (CR 1) Brown Bear with 34 HP and Multiattack is already implemented in the EA (Halsin use it), players don't get it and they do 6-12 damage with only 1 attack from 2-5 level. I have no problem at all waiting for new CR 2 froms at level 6, but only if they give us our Brown Bear and Dire Wolf unnerfed, so we can fight back enemies in the underdark/grymforge in a even match, because now at level 5 all hunter pets are better than any druid form... sad.

[dolby]

Originally posted by TrueWarlord真の武:

Originally posted by dolby:

Not sure if this will help cos i'm not gonna talk about TT comparison due to how my DND TT experience is limited...

In game they do alright,(but the game is super easy in my opinion so that doesnt really say much) My main problem as i see it is that forms do not upgrade with levels like rangers pets do so with that and that fact that your share same actions and ranger pets just have their own means that wildeshapes are worse off compared to ranger pets...



Extra problem is that you can't recast moonbeam and calll lighting in those forms.

So wildeshapes Boil down to more or less just utility with and extra hp and you are limited to a few shapes you do get, none of them have multiattack at level 5 like you get wiht Halsin NPc druid..

When you're a Moon Druid, you only get your "next tier" of beast forms at level 6, in D&D 5e at least. The formula is, you get to wildshape up to a ND 1 beast when you chose Moon Druid at level 2, and you can wildshape up to your level divided by 3 (rounded down) ND beast after that (till you get the elemental forms at level 10).

So what I get from what you're saying is that the ND 1 bear that you will get at level 2 and keep up to level 5 has been nerfed and don't have the multiattack? Do you get a better one at level 6 at least?

This is looking worse every time I read about it.

well anything can happen i guess we will have to wait for full game...EA cap is level 5...

1 new wildshape homebrew and everything can change i guess for better or worse.

I can never know with larian homebrew...

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

I have a feeling Wildshapes will get an update so they scale properly.

More concerning to me is the fact we can't use 'spell actions' during Wildshape.

[TrueWarlord真の武]

Originally posted by R3N4RD:

Originally posted by TrueWarlord真の武:

When you're a Moon Druid, you only get your "next tier" of beast forms at level 6, in D&D 5e at least. The formula is, you get to wildshape up to a ND 1 beast when you chose Moon Druid at level 2, and you can wildshape up to your level divided by 3 (rounded down) ND beast after that (till you get the elemental forms at level 10).

So what I get from what you're saying is that the ND 1 bear that you will get at level 2 and keep up to level 5 has been nerfed and don't have the multiattack? Do you get a better one at level 6 at least?

This is looking worse every time I read about it.

You are correct, while the ND 1 (CR 1) Brown Bear with 34 HP and Multiattack is already implemented in the EA (Halsin use it), players don't get it and they do 6-12 damage with only 1 attack from 2-5 level. I have no problem at all waiting for new CR 2 froms at level 6, but only if they give us our Brown Bear and Dire Wolf unnerfed, so we can fight back enemies in the underdark/grymforge in a even match, because now at level 5 all hunter pets are better than any druid form... sad.

I'm always mixing my language with english regards these abbreviations LOL.

Glad you understood I was talking about CR (challenge rating) when I said ND (nível de desafio, in portuguese).

I totally forgot that level cap was only 5 in BG3 early access, for some reason I thought it was 10 (I was remembering Solasta, probably). Guess we will have to wait and see what they do with the CR2 beasts.

[IgnatiusJ.Reilly]

A wild-shaped druid not being able to use 'spell-actions' while wild-shaped is a known issue. Folks have reported it and Larian has contacted them back saying that it should be fixed at release.

[Mosey]

I'm curious to see what they do just because at the moment Moon druid is actually worse than Ranger summons. Not a great look.

And since they also get fewer spells than land...well it's really no contest at the moment.

That being said I'm sure there is more they will add, I'm just assuming none of that made it into patch 9. It would be absurd for ranger summons to get extra abilities at level 5 while Moon gets diddly outside some nice spells they can't cast while shifted.

[dolby]

Originally posted by IgnatiusJ.Reilly:

A wild-shaped druid not being able to use 'spell-actions' while wild-shaped is a known issue. Folks have reported it and Larian has contacted them back saying that it should be fixed at release.

so if i make a report about it ill get this massage ?> i highly doubt it don't belive everthing people say on the internet :).
Sounds more like in this case it would make sense to fix it and someone made that up.

anyway whatever the case lets hope they do that.

[NHK]

Deffo a nerf in comparaison of 5E moon druid, the bear stat overall are nerfed, also the multi attack, tho druid is actually one of the best class in DnD, so maybe the nerf was necessary, but yea it hits hard here.

[dolby]

Originally posted by NHK:

Deffo a nerf in comparaison of 5E moon druid, the bear stat overall are nerfed, also the multi attack, tho druid is actually one of the best class in DnD, so maybe the nerf was necessary, but yea it hits hard here.

that multi attack hardy does anything that special to say that it would need a nerf!

If anythign it's OK at best if for no other reason it doesnt have other effects on in and you can't dip it...:)

[Harukage]

The only time when Moon Druid become broken is when he is at lvl 20 and can use wild shape indefinitely to never die. Otherwise it is just a sub-optimal striker/defender with spells. Nothing to nerf here.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Harukage:

The only time when Moon Druid become broken is when he is at lvl 20 and can use wild shape indefinitely to never die. Otherwise it is just a sub-optimal striker/defender with spells. Nothing to nerf here.

half of level 20 abiltiy we already get for free at level 1... and how is constantly changing shape gonna help you when you lose your turn in the round and CC will make it useless sorry, but for level 20 skill...that just meh..

level 20 features for most classes would do ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in bg 3 it's all over the place and hadly any are good i guess cos no one ever gets to level 20 in TT anyway?

[TrueWarlord真の武]

Originally posted by NHK:

druid is actually one of the best class in DnD, so maybe the nerf was necessary

Druid is not the best class in D&D 5e, quite the opposite. Moon Druid is the weakest class at level 5 up to level 9, and only goes on "par" with the others classes at level 10.

The reason I love Druids is pure subjective preferences base on lore and the "fantasy" of the class. I like being the guardian of the forests guy, and all the spiritual/nature fluffy that Druids have. I also love playing with Monks because of the lore/fantasy.

But objectively/numericaly speaking, Druids are far (VERY FAR) away of being the best D&D 5e class. Quite the opposite.

Originally posted by Harukage:

The only time when Moon Druid become broken is when he is at lvl 20 and can use wild shape indefinitely to never die

It's very easy to kill a Druid with spells such as Power Word Kill. Damage is not the only way to kill someone and these "instant death" effects will not revert the druid to humanoid form, they will just kill it. Remeber, you're talking about LEVEL 20, so these kinds of spells are EXPECTED.

Druids are never broken, and not the "best class" in D&D 5e, not even close.

[Diomedes]

Originally posted by TrueWarlord真の武:

Originally posted by NHK:

druid is actually one of the best class in DnD, so maybe the nerf was necessary

Druid is not the best class in D&D 5e, quite the opposite. Moon Druid is the weakest class at level 5 up to level 9, and only goes on "par" with the others classes at level 10.

The reason I love Druids is pure subjective preferences base on lore and the "fantasy" of the class. I like being the guardian of the forests guy, and all the spiritual/nature fluffy that Druids have. I also love playing with Monks because of the lore/fantasy.

But objectively/numericaly speaking, Druids are far (VERY FAR) away of being the best D&D 5e class. Quite the opposite.

Originally posted by Harukage:

The only time when Moon Druid become broken is when he is at lvl 20 and can use wild shape indefinitely to never die

It's very easy to kill a Druid with spells such as Power Word Kill. Damage is not the only way to kill someone and these "instant death" effects will not revert the druid to humanoid form, they will just kill it. Remeber, you're talking about LEVEL 20, so these kinds of spells are EXPECTED.

Druids are never broken, and not the "best class" in D&D 5e, not even close.

Moon Druid is very much considered S tier, as one of the most powerful subclasses in 5e.