I'm sorry but the Die Roll is a failure as a concept.

[Xenon]

This was an experiment, and it failed, as far as I'm concerned. What may work just fine for a tabletop game, may not translate as well into a computer RPG. It especially does not translate well into this kind of RPG, where every character is fully voiced and the story is heavily based on systematic interactions. I see 2 major issues here:

1. The die roll mini game interrupts the organic flow of NPC conversations. Remember how everyone hated the rock/paper/scissors mini game in DOS1? Well this is much worse because this mini game pops up every minute. It takes the player out of the illusion having a conversation with a person.

2. It encourages save-scumming. I can't recall another RPG I reloaded so much. And the reason for that is that the die roll system is at the foundation of everything in the game, including combat, which means your success in combat is largely dependent on luck, not your strategic thinking. And for those of us who are complitionists, there is no reason not to save-scum. Failed a die roll? Reload, nothing easier!

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Publicado originalmente por heepofslag:

Seriously though I was actually wondering if there would be an option to actually roll for your damage like in the table top instead of it doing it passively. Complaining about the dice rolls in a DnD game is a lot like saying "you know I think Madden would be a lot better without all the football" (not that I am a fan of Madden).

There are dice rolls and you can see them if you open the log on the bottom right it's a little arrow, you cant interaction t with them but you can see what rolled and how much it hit for down there.

[Cirrus]

Publicado originalmente por Xenon:

Publicado originalmente por Cirrus:

In this contex no. Some artists do not choose to paint elefants even in the case most money would be in elefants. Wanting that particular artist to paint elefants is always you problem. Even if yous outnumber anything else by far. Wanting to discuss non-dice roll game with game forum decicated to dice roll game will stay you-problem to the infinity.

A game is not just art, it's also business. It's meant to entertain the player. If player is not entertained, it's a failure.

In this co text it is.

Flight simulator game developers will never ever change game to mushroom picking simulator because of business.

Dice roll game developers wil never change game to non dice roll game because of business.

It will be another game on another day in both cases.

Take 10 wishers have misunderstood the use case of that gravely. It would require Larian homebrew the idea out of original concept. Thus I highly doubt it appearing. But workload wise it should be very doable.

[RocketMan]

Publicado originalmente por Cirrus:

Publicado originalmente por Xenon:

A game is not just art, it's also business. It's meant to entertain the player. If player is not entertained, it's a failure.

In this co text it is.

Flight simulator game developers will never ever change game to mushroom picking simulator because of business.

Dice roll game developers wil never change game to non dice roll game because of business.

It will be another game on another day in both cases.

Dice rolls aren't a game genre.

You're conflating changing core game mechanics with supplementary game mechanics.

The target audiences for "Dice roll" turn based strategy is the same as non dice roll turn based strategy.

Whereas the audience for flight sim is not the same audience for mushroom picker XL

Anyways I'm done nitpicking.

[Cirrus]

Publicado originalmente por Mail me to the Moon:

Publicado originalmente por Cirrus:

In this co text it is.

Flight simulator game developers will never ever change game to mushroom picking simulator because of business.

Dice roll game developers wil never change game to non dice roll game because of business.

It will be another game on another day in both cases.

Dice rolls aren't a game genre.

You're conflating changing core game mechanics with supplementary game mechanics.

The target audiences for "Dice roll" turn based strategy is the same as non dice roll turn based strategy.

Whereas the audience for flight sim is not the same audience for mushroom picker XL

Genres have absolutely nothing to do with my point.

The artistic vision of developers and IP owners have. This game will never become non-dice roll game because of IP owner. Somewhat less dice rolly yes. Non no.

[RocketMan]

Publicado originalmente por Cirrus:

Publicado originalmente por Mail me to the Moon:

Dice rolls aren't a game genre.

You're conflating changing core game mechanics with supplementary game mechanics.

The target audiences for "Dice roll" turn based strategy is the same as non dice roll turn based strategy.

Whereas the audience for flight sim is not the same audience for mushroom picker XL

Genres have absolutely nothing to do with my point.

The artistic vision of developers and IP owners have. This game will never become non-dice roll game because if IP owner. Somewhat less dice rolly yes. Non no.

-cough- Baldur's gate Dark Alliance -Cough cough-

Your point also kinda revolves entirely around genres as that's what the business cares about there. Genres = target audience = money. Flight simulator doesn't become mushroom picker XL because that would change the genre, thus alienating the audience causing the developer to lose money.

It's all about expectations and following through with them.

But yeah, I don't see bg3 ever losing the dice roll system. It's a bit late in dev to change that. Sunk costs and all that nonsense.

[Cirrus]

Publicado originalmente por Mail me to the Moon:

Publicado originalmente por Cirrus:

Genres have absolutely nothing to do with my point.

The artistic vision of developers and IP owners have. This game will never become non-dice roll game because if IP owner. Somewhat less dice rolly yes. Non no.

-cough- Baldur's gate Dark Alliance -Cough cough-

Your point also kinda revolves entirely around genres as that's what the business cares about there. Genres = target audience = money. Flight simulator doesn't become mushroom picker XL because that would change the genre, thus alienating the audience causing the developer to lose money.

It's all about expectations and following through with them.

But yeah, I don't see bg3 ever losing the dice roll system. It's a bit late in dev to change that. Sunk costs and all that nonsense.

Dark alliance was another game in another day with different artistic vision.

In future then again any kind of game and vision can be possible for wotc again. For this game no.

[RocketMan]

Publicado originalmente por Cirrus:

Publicado originalmente por Mail me to the Moon:

-cough- Baldur's gate Dark Alliance -Cough cough-

Your point also kinda revolves entirely around genres as that's what the business cares about there. Genres = target audience = money. Flight simulator doesn't become mushroom picker XL because that would change the genre, thus alienating the audience causing the developer to lose money.

It's all about expectations and following through with them.

But yeah, I don't see bg3 ever losing the dice roll system. It's a bit late in dev to change that. Sunk costs and all that nonsense.

Dark alliance was another game in another day with different artistic vision.

In future then again any kind of game and vision can be possible for wotc again. For this game no.

As per my last reply.

But yeah, I don't see bg3 ever losing the dice roll system. It's a bit late in dev to change that. Sunk costs and all that nonsense.

Nothing to do with artistic vision and more so that a ton of resources have already been put into it. You can't change something like that on a whim. Gamedev is expensive.

[WeenerTuck813]

Awful thread, did not read. OP blaming system for his save scumming trying to absolve himself of guilt.

It’s not the game mechanics fault you’re reloading like that. It’s yours. Own up to it 🤷‍♂️

[Xenon]

Publicado originalmente por Criminal Horse:

Publicado originalmente por Pan Darius Kairos:

Wait, did you actually just use force majeure in it's proper context?

I disagree with what you're saying, but I give you award for displaying literacy in a largely illiterate world...

In more wide sense 'force majeure' is some unexpected extraneous event, that prevents you from doing something (basically legal agreement, but in a wide sense not mandatory).

Everyone is sure that he will be back safe when he's going to shop after the corner. Because it statistically happenned hundreds of times.
And then a meteor falls. Boom — double nat1 with advantage!
Force Majeure :D

That does nothing to refute what I said. You know very well that a chance of death by a meteor is so low to the point of being negligible.

[Xenon]

Publicado originalmente por Cirrus:

Publicado originalmente por Xenon:

A game is not just art, it's also business. It's meant to entertain the player. If player is not entertained, it's a failure.

In this co text it is.

Flight simulator game developers will never ever change game to mushroom picking simulator because of business.

Dice roll game developers wil never change game to non dice roll game because of business.

It will be another game on another day in both cases.

Take 10 wishers have misunderstood the use case of that gravely. It would require Larian homebrew the idea out of original concept. Thus I highly doubt it appearing. But workload wise it should be very doable.

They will if they want to eat.

[Xenon]

Publicado originalmente por WeenerTuck813:

Awful thread, did not read. OP blaming system for his save scumming trying to absolve himself of guilt.

It’s not the game mechanics fault you’re reloading like that. It’s yours. Own up to it 🤷‍♂️

Yet you bothered to type out a reply. Another cool kid.

[Tuco]

Publicado originalmente por Xenon:

It is a problem I have with the game because it encourages it.

I have no particular interest in defending or criticizing the "dice roll" as a visual mechanic, but for the record, this isn't anywhere near as much of a problem as some people seem to think it is.

The game doesn't really have a lot of "failure states" and in a lot of cases even not passing a check doesn't lock you away from a solution (OR in some cases opens a new different scenario).

One example would be saving the girl from the serpent and Kagha: people freaked out that it used to make them feel bad and "forced them to reload", but in reality any player who rolled with the punches and accepted a failure there would be rewarded later with a new narrative angle (a scene where the grieving mother would take revenge on Kagha).

Another one: failing to free yourself when captured by Priestess Guts translated in having a new character appear on the scene and free you, telling you you owned them a favor from that moment going on.

[RocketMan]

Publicado originalmente por WeenerTuck813:

Awful thread, did not read. OP blaming system for his save scumming trying to absolve himself of guilt.

It’s not the game mechanics fault you’re reloading like that. It’s yours. Own up to it 🤷‍♂️

This is why gambling is legal at all ages!

[tkis]

Publicado originalmente por Mail me to the Moon:

Publicado originalmente por WeenerTuck813:

Awful thread, did not read. OP blaming system for his save scumming trying to absolve himself of guilt.

It’s not the game mechanics fault you’re reloading like that. It’s yours. Own up to it 🤷‍♂️

This is why gambling is legal at all ages!

for those selected few in a few selected places, where gambling is the norm, cheating is frowned upon at best, even if the consequences of failing forward are not promising at all :)

[Xan84]

If only they could find a way to give people that option to somehow use the stats you have to determine if you pass a conversation or not. Just make it a toggle. Who want the dice system can have it, and people that hate it, just use the stats, you have X stat in Y then you pass, not, you don't.