A Useful Reddit Post on the Paladin Oaths

[Long Journey]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/zor0qa/the_oaths_of_devotion_and_ancients_the_actual/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Alright, I am going to do what this post did and just copy/paste the Paladin oaths for Devotion and Ancients as in this Reddit post. The confusion surrounding the oaths and what does and doesn't break them is frequent enough to where I think this is justified. Hopefully it helps or at least elucidates.

I've been seeing a bunch of posts about people accidentally (or due to bugs or whatever else) breaking their Paladin oaths. So, to help educate/refresh knowledge, I will post the oaths here so you know what you are signing onto when making your Paladin. These are taken directly from the book so pay attention!

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Oath of Devotion

TENETS OF DEVOTION

Though the exact words and strictures of the Oath of Devotion vary, paladins of this oath share these tenets.

Honesty. Don’t lie or cheat. Let your word be your promise.

Courage. Never fear to act, though caution is wise.

Compassion. Aid others, protect the weak, and punish those who threaten them. Show mercy to your foes, but temper it with wisdom.

Honor. Treat others with fairness, and let your honorable deeds be an example to them. Do as much good as possible while causing the least amount of harm.

Duty. Be responsible for your actions and their consequences, protect those entrusted to your care, and obey those who have just authority over you.

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Oath of the Ancients

TENETS OF THE ANCIENTS

The tenets of the Oath of the Ancients have been preserved for uncounted centuries. This oath emphasizes the principles of good above any concerns of law or chaos. Its four central principles are simple.

Kindle the Light. Through your acts of mercy, kindness, and forgiveness, kindle the light of hope in the world, beating back despair.

Shelter the Light.Where there is good, beauty, love, and laughter in the world, stand against the wickedness that would swallow it. Where life flourishes, stand against the forces that would render it barren.

Preserve Your Own Light. Delight in song and laughter, in beauty and art. If you allow the light to die in your own heart, you can’t preserve it in the world.

Be the Light. Be a glorious beacon for all who live in despair. Let the light of your joy and courage shine forth in all your deeds.

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So there you go! Keep these in mind as you play and you likely won't go astray (and if you do, it might be a bug)!

[December]

The compassion one sorta annoys me, cause what logical decision a player might come to might not be the same as Larian. I might also add the honesty one is weird as you can get away with a lot of deception as a paladin.

[Long Journey]

Originally posted by December:

The compassion one sorta annoys me, cause what logical decision a player might come to might not be the same as Larian. I might also add the honesty one is weird as you can get away with a lot of deception as a paladin.

Something to add to the pile of feedback for Larian, but these are the official oaths as designed by WotC. Probably may be worth our while to check out on what they believe to be fitting or oathbreaking, since Larian is taking cues from Wizards.

[KOHb]

Like any holy book those could be interpreted a lot of ways :)

[p_m_duarte]

Part of the problem with this is that the moral distinctions are being made by the developers in a weird way. Take Grymforge. It was well established that the dwarves are slavers. You should be able to immediately kill every slaver without breaking an oath. I did end up killing every dwarf, but had to steal first and get them to attack me.

So killing them in self defense when I AM STEALING = ok. Killing them in punishment for being a slaver = breaking oath?

The developers half-baked this and it shows.

[December]

Originally posted by p_m_duarte:

Part of the problem with this is that the moral distinctions are being made by the developers in a weird way. Take Grymforge. It was well established that the dwarves are slavers. You should be able to immediately kill every slaver without breaking an oath. I did end up killing every dwarf, but had to steal first and get them to attack me.

So killing them in self defense when I AM STEALING = ok. Killing them in punishment for being a slaver = breaking oath?

The developers half-baked this and it shows.

Damn that is absurd

[hoot hoot]

A lot of this class flavor is lost when it's never pointed out in-game. We play as characters who have made some sacred oath they must live by or we'll face gameplay repercussions, yet we're not actually made aware of these oaths? It's just vague "don't murderhobo or be naughty".

And if we're unable to justify our decisions when they could be suspect, it feels unfair to be punished. Is it really a question of honor to ambush evil creatures, sentient or not, when doing so would reduce the risk of harm to our allies as well as ridding the world of evil creatures? Creatures that we're going to fight and kill regardless? No, and I'd argue striding up to the baddies and telling them to fight is just a boneheadded and foolish requirement.

We can't choose an alignment. We have no stipulations to remain "lawful good" or "neutral good", whatever. I'd also like to choose a deity, even if just for flavor. It just feels too watered down. It could be way deeper.

Other classes could benefit from it, too. Why not let Barbarians worship Tempus or Rogues worship Shar? Grant some small boon or even just flavor.

I hope this is fleshed out more by release, but it doesn't look like it will be. It'll be yet another thing fixed by mods.

[Café_Noir]

I'll play a chaotic neutral spellcaster as always, duck Paladins and their unrealistic expectations !

[Trap Queen 85]

World builder [Usually DM and in this case Devs] is the final judge and jury on morality/ethics. Pretty much end of story. Low Key laughing at people forced to work within a system that is less flexible than Alignment [Because Paladin code] , hell even the point system for Alignment was more flexible than this haha.

That said welcome to consequences for actions 101. But on the other side of that coin there are definitely issues as the system doesn't make rational sense in a lot of ways with regard to what actions break a code which is why I said doing something like this for the sake of implementing Oathbreaker doesn't seem like a wise thing to do considering the complexity.