So I tried out the 'Non-Lethal' attacks...

[Goldensun441]

Apparently knocking out Johl and Demir on the way to Auntie Ethel's cabin treats them as if they are dead.

I don't exactly expect them to write a new branching path for every random thing I do, but maybe if they still alive don't flag them as dead?

RIP Johl and Demir 11/27/22 - Died from sleeping in the dirt after being healed to full health.

[RACHMANOVSKI]

I think, It's mostly for your conscious. There are goblin kids you can very much kill which you can only prevent them being dead by turning on that feat.

Mechanically they're dead right, you can loot them, but in-game canonically you just beat them unconscious. --- at least that's how I think about it.

[Ghost]

Non-Lethal attacks have been a thing from the beginning of dnd. You want that dragon on your side? Beat it with 1 damage non-lethal attacks until it submits. Hope you don't die. Glad that got changed in more recent versions.

Yeah, Johl and Demir are in a weird place. If you 'help' them back up they are not happy but people still act as if they're dead. For Ethel and sort of by extension Mayrina you could say an assumption has been made on their part I guess? But then certain party members are upset you 'killed' them.

[raymond]

It's been a while, so I've forgotten names -- but Wyll says he wants to talk to a goblin (Spike ?); so during the inevitable battle I use non-lethal against them so we could have a post-battle chat.
So yeah - turns out that's not a doable plan.

Are there any places for non-lethal?

[RACHMANOVSKI]

Originally posted by raymond:

It's been a while, so I've forgotten names -- but Wyll says he wants to talk to a goblin (Spike ?); so during the inevitable battle I use non-lethal against them so we could have a post-battle chat.
So yeah - turns out that's not a doable plan.

Are there any places for non-lethal?

What, how?

You don't need to toggle non-lethal attack for that fight, because you need only to hit him close to death and he will surrender. Maybe if you hit him with Laezel, who hits enemy like a truck, especially when you use that Everburn Greatsword, you may need to turn on the toggle (which only works with melee weapon btw).

[raymond]

Originally posted by RACHMANOVSKI:

You don't need to toggle non-lethal attack for that fight, because you need only to hit him close to death and he will surrender.

hmmn - probably my bad; as I'd turned on non-lethal the two times I've done it ... so never actually tried to actually 'kill' him to get a surrender state.

[RACHMANOVSKI]

Originally posted by raymond:

Originally posted by RACHMANOVSKI:

You don't need to toggle non-lethal attack for that fight, because you need only to hit him close to death and he will surrender.

hmmn - probably my bad; as I'd turned on non-lethal the two times I've done it ... so never actually tried to actually 'kill' him to get a surrender state.

Even if you killed him somehow. You can ressurect him with speaking w/ dead spells. You can cast this spell with amulet you would found on a abandoned jergal (?, forgot the name lmao) temple, the one you find that mysterious skeleton man that follow you to your camp and sells/casts scrolls that will revive your companion if they're dead.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Goldensun441:

Apparently knocking out Johl and Demir on the way to Auntie Ethel's cabin treats them as if they are dead.

I don't exactly expect them to write a new branching path for every random thing I do, but maybe if they still alive don't flag them as dead?

RIP Johl and Demir 11/27/22 - Died from sleeping in the dirt after being healed to full health.

This isn't just some random thing, saving them or convincing - getting the quest from them is a basic normal thing in most rpgs in this one as well in some quests, so the fact that we can't in some cases is weird and wecovered this in mutiple threads already...

The knockout feature sadly has little value in cases like this and right now is immersion breaking if anything cos the game never registers it in quests/events. I guess the whole knockout thing was added later as feedback that was never as planed and it shows. It can lead to all sorts of weird thing like multiple items, npcs and so on.

There is no reason that the player can't save those two the way it's writen - made right now, So something need to be done about it. It's not the only event with this kind of problem, like i said it's the basic thing in most rpgs and in EA we have a few cases that have this problem, way back in the druid camp as well.

Thing is IF devs don't let the player save the npcs, they got to make sure those two never survive at all. you can't have it both ways at the same time.

You can't just make npcs run out of view in open map and then spawn their bodies 50m away... Well, you can if you want half finished quest line and npcs vanishing into thin air infront of the player. Of course people who want to save them will follow them. leading to holes in game Illusion.

[BigAlzBub]

There is a bow (Spell Thief) you can buy from Aunty Ethel which once per short rest can recharge a 1st level spell when you score a critical hit. If you KO someone and stand next to them and finish them off with the bow, you ALWAYS get critical hit, even if you aren't proficient with the bow...

[Goldensun441]

Originally posted by raymond:

Originally posted by RACHMANOVSKI:

You don't need to toggle non-lethal attack for that fight, because you need only to hit him close to death and he will surrender.

hmmn - probably my bad; as I'd turned on non-lethal the two times I've done it ... so never actually tried to actually 'kill' him to get a surrender state.

If this was an error before, It is fixed now actually. spike is in the goblin keep torturin. The one near the windmill. If you knock him out the fight behaves correctly and surrenders, the rest run off. and you initiate a conversation waking him up from his dirt nap. I tried it yesterday, they mustve given that questline some love.

I think they just need to do another pass and take a look at other areas where the normal prebaked conversation options can make npcs hostile you might not want to kill.

Another area this *might* be worth looking into is the friends cantrip, I enjoy using that everywhere and getting into trouble when it wears off. But maybe me hoodwinking Kagha into not murderizing a child tiefling, doesnt quuuuuite warrant initiating a genocide of all tieflings in camp once my little prank wears off.

[dolby]

Originally posted by BigAlzBub:

There is a bow (Spell Thief) you can buy from Aunty Ethel which once per short rest can recharge a 1st level spell when you score a critical hit. If you KO someone and stand next to them and finish them off with the bow, you ALWAYS get critical hit, even if you aren't proficient with the bow...

with knockout you can knockout Aunty Ethel and get multiple bows

Originally posted by Goldensun441:

If this was an error before, It is fixed now actually. spike is in the goblin keep torturin. The one near the windmill. If you knock him out the fight behaves correctly and surrenders, the rest run off. and you initiate a conversation waking him up from his dirt nap. I tried it yesterday, they mustve given that questline some love.


I think they just need to do another pass and take a look at other areas where the normal prebaked conversation options can make npcs hostile you might not want to kill.

lets hope they fix it cos there isn't much point to knockout if it's not registered in quests...apart from multiple item exploits!

Originally posted by Goldensun441:

Another area this *might* be worth looking into is the friends cantrip,

Every try Tping away to a waypoint? Do they still get hostile? Never really bothered to test it myself. Maybe if one makes a long rest they forget about it lol .

Anyway the fact that we can wipeout the whole druid camp is not my fav. thing at all kinda werid... Whats next? We gonna purge Baldur's gate city of npcs just cos a pickpocket or covensation went wrong?

[Ghost]

Originally posted by dolby:

Originally posted by Goldensun441:

Another area this *might* be worth looking into is the friends cantrip,

Every try Tping away to a waypoint? Do they still get hostile? Never really bothered to test it myself. Maybe if one makes a long rest they forget about it lol .

Anyway the fact that we can wipeout the whole druid camp is not my fav. thing at all kinda werid... Whats next? We gonna purge Baldur's gate city of npcs just cos a pickpocket or covensation went wrong?

As far as I'm aware they still get hostile when friends wears off.

That's definitely something that needs work. Had a similar situation in DOS 1 -
So you've saved the town and our ships from burning down, stopped the orc invasion, eliminated a cult and brought a serial killer to justice but you accidentally picked up a bucket so now we have to kill you.