Why are the damn half-elves so op?

[Ninjamestari]

Topic. Pls nerf helves and buff hoomans.

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by cool-dude:

Originally posted by Ninjamestari:

I just fail to see what race could possibly be better? That extra movement speed/cantrip is pretty much the best you can get and your stat boost is better than pure elf.

half elves are the best. They get dark vision, fey ancestry, a bonus based on their parent race (high elf gets a free cantrip), and they can select two free attribute points of their choice. Second best would probably be the Tiefling.

For a barbarian?

I mean, half elves are good, I wouldn't claim otherwise, but they're only the "best" for charisma-based classes.

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

Originally posted by Hobocop:

As a barbarian, I would much rather just...throw something to achieve those results. Alchemist’s Fire or a bottle of grease will accomplish the same goal without needing to waste build features on something that you literally can't do during a barbarian's primary game plan.

The value proposition of a bad attack cantrip just to trigger these effects only continues to decrease as your primary attack method continues to improve through Extra Attack, Strength bonus and Rage damage bonus.

Thanks, I thought I was taking crazy pills here.

Spells aren't the only way to accomplish surface effects in these games! And you can throw stuff while raging, which is something barbarians want to be doing constantly! I can't imagine sacrificing strength on a barbarian just to be able to inefficiently cast one cantrip with my 8-10 intelligence modifier.

Not to mention that both barbarian subclasses in BG3 are superior to their RAW PHB counterparts.

Berserker gets a bonus action weapon attack on tap with no drawbacks while Raging.

Every Wildheart pick got a new ability to use while Raging in addition to all of their existing PHB benefits.

Giving all of that up for a single round in the middle of combat to toss out a +2 to-hit Firebolt or Ray of Frost to pop a surface when you can just throw something or use your Rage ability is incredibly wasteful. If action economy is paramount, you wouldn't even spend a single second thinking about this lopsided tradeoff as a barbarian because it's basically a non-option.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

Originally posted by Aldain:

Hell, take a Paladin with a Magic Initiate feat, even that is better by a long shot (also an extra Smite from the spell slot).

Wait, does Magic Initiate give an extra slot in BG3? It doesn't in 5e DnD.

In BG3 at least, yes as far as I remember.

Though iirc the OneDnD update is changing it to function like that as well, but I could be wrong, I only looked through the test document a few times.

Edit: Nope, nevermind I was wrong, OneDnD just lets you upcast the spell with your own spell slots, so pretty much just a BG3 tech, though a Paladin in OneDnD could technically upcast something if they felt like doing that instead of a Smite (Chromatic Orb could be useful depending on the situation for effective elemental damage for example) and the cantrips still function normally.

[larhtas]

Originally posted by cool-dude:

Originally posted by Ninjamestari:

I just fail to see what race could possibly be better? That extra movement speed/cantrip is pretty much the best you can get and your stat boost is better than pure elf.

half elves are the best. They get dark vision, fey ancestry, a bonus based on their parent race (high elf gets a free cantrip), and they can select two free attribute points of their choice. Second best would probably be the Tiefling.

Not for barbarian as very much explained here.
And not for wizards and rogues as mentioned many times around while been ignored.
It's already one third of the classes of the game which you can do better with another race.

This apart while I completely disagree with the "nerf PHB" and the strange mathematics of OP. I agree on the fact that I wanted to see something different from Half-Elf like the regular +2 skills proficiency. If I remember well there is a mod to get regular H-Elf?

[Ronin Gamer]

Originally posted by larhtas:

Originally posted by cool-dude:

half elves are the best. They get dark vision, fey ancestry, a bonus based on their parent race (high elf gets a free cantrip), and they can select two free attribute points of their choice. Second best would probably be the Tiefling.

Not for barbarian as very much explained here.
And not for wizards and rogues as mentioned many times around while been ignored.
It's already one third of the classes of the game which you can do better with another race.

This apart while I completely disagree with the "nerf PHB" and the strange mathematics of OP. I agree on the fact that I wanted to see something different from Half-Elf like the regular +2 skills proficiency. If I remember well there is a mod to get regular H-Elf?

You do realize you don't HAVE to max a specific stat right? Like you can get all the various bonuses of a half elf, while taking a minor hit to one stat that might be useful to that class, but still maintain the sweep of positives half elf comes with.
Who am I kidding, I know what response this is going to get...

[larhtas]

Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:

Originally posted by larhtas:

Not for barbarian as very much explained here.
And not for wizards and rogues as mentioned many times around while been ignored.
It's already one third of the classes of the game which you can do better with another race.

This apart while I completely disagree with the "nerf PHB" and the strange mathematics of OP. I agree on the fact that I wanted to see something different from Half-Elf like the regular +2 skills proficiency. If I remember well there is a mod to get regular H-Elf?

You do realize you don't HAVE to max a specific stat right? Like you can get all the various bonuses of a half elf, while taking a minor hit to one stat that might be useful to that class, but still maintain the sweep of positives half elf comes with.
Who am I kidding, I know what response this is going to get...:er_sad:

Yes I do, still I don't find that Half-Elf are the best of the best. I believe it is very depending of the class and the style you decide to go with. While someone is explaining, the hard way, that DnD is math and explain really badly, by insulting everyone, that the math of Half-elf are completely broken then I believe it's ok to say that I disagree.

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:

Originally posted by larhtas:

Not for barbarian as very much explained here.
And not for wizards and rogues as mentioned many times around while been ignored.
It's already one third of the classes of the game which you can do better with another race.

This apart while I completely disagree with the "nerf PHB" and the strange mathematics of OP. I agree on the fact that I wanted to see something different from Half-Elf like the regular +2 skills proficiency. If I remember well there is a mod to get regular H-Elf?

You do realize you don't HAVE to max a specific stat right? Like you can get all the various bonuses of a half elf, while taking a minor hit to one stat that might be useful to that class, but still maintain the sweep of positives half elf comes with.
Who am I kidding, I know what response this is going to get...:er_sad:

The point being argued in this post is whether half-elves are overpowered and "the best".

Sure, no reason you couldn't play an effective half-elf barbarian. That's not in contention here.

[AngryPuppy]

Originally posted by Ninjamestari:

Topic. Pls nerf helves and buff hoomans.

Please stop with the nerf crap. People like you get good games ruined with your whining.

[Ronin Gamer]

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:

You do realize you don't HAVE to max a specific stat right? Like you can get all the various bonuses of a half elf, while taking a minor hit to one stat that might be useful to that class, but still maintain the sweep of positives half elf comes with.
Who am I kidding, I know what response this is going to get...

The point being argued in this post is whether half-elves are overpowered and "the best".

Sure, no reason you couldn't play an effective half-elf barbarian. That's not in contention here.

My point is why do people bother caring? One race has advantages that makes them a higher pick because of it. Cool. You can literally pick a race that is NOT that, and since everyone on this forums throws a fit at human let's go with that, and do a "challenge" run setting specific rules as to what you need to do while playing to see if you can.

You can enjoy all kinds of different set ups for different reasons, but a ton of gamers seem to focus only on what is the absolute "best" and I frankly never understand that. If you want to play the best, then play the best. If you want to go for a more interesting idea by mixing specific race/class set up and see if you can make that work, go for it! Who cares if half elf is or isn't the "best" race.

As someone else said, like every race, half-elves will be more effective with certain classes, but not all. But they also come with a nice set of bonuses that will help you a lot regardless, so if you want to play one just play one. But then I'm one of the VERY rare few that seems to understand the focus of human and understands why they are the way they are. Is human the best? No. Is that a problem? No, same as any other race regardless of where they sit on this weird ranking people seem to be making up.

[larhtas]

Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

The point being argued in this post is whether half-elves are overpowered and "the best".

Sure, no reason you couldn't play an effective half-elf barbarian. That's not in contention here.

My point is why do people bother caring? One race has advantages that makes them a higher pick because of it. Cool. You can literally pick a race that is NOT that, and since everyone on this forums throws a fit at human let's go with that, and do a "challenge" run setting specific rules as to what you need to do while playing to see if you can.

You can enjoy all kinds of different set ups for different reasons, but a ton of gamers seem to focus only on what is the absolute "best" and I frankly never understand that. If you want to play the best, then play the best. If you want to go for a more interesting idea by mixing specific race/class set up and see if you can make that work, go for it! Who cares if half elf is or isn't the "best" race.

As someone else said, like every race, half-elves will be more effective with certain classes, but not all. But they also come with a nice set of bonuses that will help you a lot regardless, so if you want to play one just play one. But then I'm one of the VERY rare few that seems to understand the focus of human and understands why they are the way they are. Is human the best? No. Is that a problem? No, same as any other race regardless of where they sit on this weird ranking people seem to be making up.

All right, so now let's get to the topic. Do you believe that Half-Elf should be nerfed? And human buffed?

[darqart]

When nerds attack.....u get a long wall of text, like this pointless thread.

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

The point being argued in this post is whether half-elves are overpowered and "the best".

Sure, no reason you couldn't play an effective half-elf barbarian. That's not in contention here.

My point is why do people bother caring? One race has advantages that makes them a higher pick because of it. Cool. You can literally pick a race that is NOT that, and since everyone on this forums throws a fit at human let's go with that, and do a "challenge" run setting specific rules as to what you need to do while playing to see if you can.

You can enjoy all kinds of different set ups for different reasons, but a ton of gamers seem to focus only on what is the absolute "best" and I frankly never understand that. If you want to play the best, then play the best. If you want to go for a more interesting idea by mixing specific race/class set up and see if you can make that work, go for it! Who cares if half elf is or isn't the "best" race.

As someone else said, like every race, half-elves will be more effective with certain classes, but not all. But they also come with a nice set of bonuses that will help you a lot regardless, so if you want to play one just play one. But then I'm one of the VERY rare few that seems to understand the focus of human and understands why they are the way they are. Is human the best? No. Is that a problem? No, same as any other race regardless of where they sit on this weird ranking people seem to be making up.

I get your point. I agree with it. But it's not what anybody else was discussing. If the concept of ideal races isn't an interesting topic of conversation to you, you don't need to weigh in on it. Flying in to simply say "this topic isn't interesting to me" isn't productive.

[Siegdarth]

Humans
Have +1 in all atb (its only really good in point buy system and if you are playing a few mad classes or multiclassing)

Half - elfs
+2 in any atb + 2 in charisma
Dark vision, immunity do sleep and resistance to charm, one cantrip/movement speed, skill versatility

Having all those perks beats by a long shot having only 2 more scores.

In BG3 since darkvision is a game-changer. Underdark =d.

"oh but you can cast dancing light or light!"

=_= just boring.

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Siegdarth:

Humans
Have +1 in all atb (its only really good in point buy system and if you are playing a few mad classes or multiclassing)

Half - elfs
+2 in any atb + 2 in charisma
Dark vision, immunity do sleep and resistance to charm, one cantrip/movement speed, skill versatility

Having all those perks beats by a long shot having only 2 more scores.

In BG3 since darkvision is a game-changer. Underdark =d.

"oh but you can cast dancing light or light!"

=_= just boring.

Slight correction. Half elves have +1 to any two attributes plus +2 charisma, not +2 to any.

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by Siegdarth:

Humans
Have +1 in all atb (its only really good in point buy system and if you are playing a few mad classes or multiclassing)

Half - elfs
+2 in any atb + 2 in charisma
Dark vision, immunity do sleep and resistance to charm, one cantrip/movement speed, skill versatility

Having all those perks beats by a long shot having only 2 more scores.

In BG3 since darkvision is a game-changer. Underdark =d.

"oh but you can cast dancing light or light!"

=_= just boring.

+2 in anything would make Half-Elves easily the strongest race in BG3, but that's critically not how they work. It's +1 to two different ability scores, so you can't get to a 17 starting score in anything except Charisma with them.