Witchbolt Issue - Higher Level Casting Damage

[imgabz]

Just wanted to put this issue here, I am enjoying the game so much! When casting witchbolt at higher levels the game lets you initially cause the correct amount of damage, but then subsequent turns have only level 1 damage. It's just making it harder to use what is definitely my favorite spell in more difficult battles.

[Lax]

I like Witchbolt as well but I find it underwhelming compared to other spells at my disposal. It is satisfying when it lands though.

[Hobocop]

Unfortunately, upcasting Witch Bolt RAW doesn't improve the damage after the initial cast. Good candidate for a spell that could use a bit of tweaking, though.

[BW022]

Adding to Hobocop...
"At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the initial damage increases by 1d12 for each slot level above 1st."

It would be kind of overpowered to have a spell doing 2d12 or 3d12 (etc.) damage per round, with no save or attack roll. Even heat metal is only d8's, second level, it a damage type often resisted, and only works in limited cases -- foe with metal armor.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Witch Bolt isn't a very good spell. Lightning Bolt and Call Lightning are much better.

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by BW022:

Adding to Hobocop...
"At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the initial damage increases by 1d12 for each slot level above 1st."

It would be kind of overpowered to have a spell doing 2d12 or 3d12 (etc.) damage per round, with no save or attack roll. Even heat metal is only d8's, second level, it a damage type often resisted, and only works in limited cases -- foe with metal armor.

Perhaps an additional die of ongoing damage every two spell levels would be an appropriate compromise, making it basically on par with cantrip damage when upcast. If you're going to be dropping a 3rd level or higher spell slot on Witch Bolt and be forced to use your action AND concentration AND be within 30 feet of the target to maintain it and do nothing else except deal damage with no ability to crit, that seems reasonable.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

I think the best way to improve Witch Bolt would be to give us the ability to use a bonus action to switch targets.

[Indure]

Witchbolt is pretty bad, at least Larian decided to let it do double damage on wet targets for whatever reason.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Indure:

Witchbolt is pretty bad, at least Larian decided to let it do double damage on wet targets for whatever reason.

All cold and lightning damage do that, regardless of source.

[imgabz]

The whole point of Witchbolt's play-ablility is the extra damage when upcast. It's not overpowered because you have to hit the target to even start the process, then you reroll damage and use your action each turn to activate it, meaning one turn you could do 12 damage and the next you could do 1. If you don't use it, it is supposed to fizzle out, again making it less OP and you need line of sight to be able to re-damage your target.

I'm just asking for the ability to actually cause the extra damage at higher levels for more than the first damage, basically I'm asking for it to work like it is supposed to.

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by imgabz:

Just wanted to put this issue here, I am enjoying the game so much! When casting witchbolt at higher levels the game lets you initially cause the correct amount of damage, but then subsequent turns have only level 1 damage. It's just making it harder to use what is definitely my favorite spell in more difficult battles.

The damage on subsequent turns is supposed to be the level 1 damage no matter what level you cast the spell at. Always has been that way in 5e.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Originally posted by imgabz:

Just wanted to put this issue here, I am enjoying the game so much! When casting witchbolt at higher levels the game lets you initially cause the correct amount of damage, but then subsequent turns have only level 1 damage. It's just making it harder to use what is definitely my favorite spell in more difficult battles.

The damage on subsequent turns is supposed to be the level 1 damage no matter what level you cast the spell at. Always has been that way in 5e.

And that's because 10 rounds of it is actually decent damage, the trick being you need to get all 10 rounds off. It's supposed to be used against a boss with a huge hp pool, then it becomes really efficient.

I don't like Witch Bolt - I think it would be better if you could switch targets during your turn. But it's damage isn't the issue.

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by imgabz:

The whole point of Witchbolt's play-ablility is the extra damage when upcast. It's not overpowered because you have to hit the target to even start the process, then you reroll damage and use your action each turn to activate it, meaning one turn you could do 12 damage and the next you could do 1. If you don't use it, it is supposed to fizzle out, again making it less OP and you need line of sight to be able to re-damage your target.

I'm just asking for the ability to actually cause the extra damage at higher levels for more than the first damage, basically I'm asking for it to work like it is supposed to.

That's the thing. It already is working as intended RAW, since the upcast clause in the spell specifically mentions only the initial damage. Witch Bolt is just a subpar spell.

If your table was running it otherwise, it wasn't RAW. Perhaps the DM came to the conclusion that the spell wasn't very good and decided to run it as you say.

[Mosey]

Fun Fact: You can twin concentration spells, or at least most of them, as long as you're on a Sorcerer and you can hold the concentration on both.

This makes witchbolt a lot more viable, even though you can't target the same person twice.

That said, you still need to actually hit with both and you'd also have to twin cast every subsequent round to do the follow up damage to each target. If it's cast at level 2 it can be impressive.

Otherwise it's a very skippable spell. Even magic missile is generally better even before you get all the broken items you can tack onto it, especially as a 2nd level cast. MM caps out at 8-20 (4D4+4) while Witchbolt caps out at 2-24 (2D12). As a level 1 cast it's an even bigger difference.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Witch Bolt would be worth it if we could use our bonus action to switch targets.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Mosey:

That said, you still need to actually hit with both and you'd also have to twin cast every subsequent round to do the follow up damage to each target. If it's cast at level 2 it can be impressive.

You wouldn't 'Twin Cast' every subsequent turn. Twinned Spell let's you target an additional creature with a spell that normally targets one creature - but it isn't two spells, it isn't two casts. It's still just one spell that now targets two creatures instead of one.

Witch Bolt says that you can use your action each turn to automatically deal 1d12 damage to the target(s) of the spell.

So, assuming that the spell hits both targets, and you don't lose concentration, you can use your action each turn to deal 1d12 damage to both targets. This isn't casting a spell, it's using a special action that is only available to you while concentrating on this spell.