Face/Body Sliders

[Dir†y McNΔ§†ÿ× {ҐӬҌӭls}♠]

I'm on the fence buying this game because I noticed their's no sliders for the body and face. Is that a planned feature or no?

[Ēarendel]

Its been a popularly requested feature here on Steam forums and on Larian's. For reasons undisclosed they refuse to implement them, most likely some limitations or lack of priority.

People have also asked to then at least implement pre-built bodytypes, because it doesn't make sense if your barbarian class char for example looks like a treehugger. But I'm not sure if Larian responded to that either.

[Ēarendel]

Dellecross původně napsal:

So bottom line - while Larian doesn't seem to be keen on the idea of a good character creator - it doesn't mean there will not be mods out there to fix it. Of course, there's also no guarantee that such mods will be created.

Not gonna happen. We won't have the same modding accessibility or tools as we did with Bethesda's games. In Skyrim's case, there was already some framework for sliders, which was also expanded upon in Fallout 4. No such case with Baldur's gate 3. At best some persons will upload their custom meshes that replace the main ones for all characters in the game.

[Cirrus]

Most propably engine is the limiting factor. Data mines have already revealed that different body types have own armor files that are attached individually for that body type. This immediately suggests that engine does not have scaling armors and thus it csnnot support sliders.

Imo It would huge waste of time to model tons of armour to tons of presets.

[id795078477]

Ēarendel původně napsal:

Dellecross původně napsal:

So bottom line - while Larian doesn't seem to be keen on the idea of a good character creator - it doesn't mean there will not be mods out there to fix it. Of course, there's also no guarantee that such mods will be created.

Not gonna happen. We won't have the same modding accessibility or tools as we did with Bethesda's games. In Skyrim's case, there was already some framework for sliders, which was also expanded upon in Fallout 4. No such case with Baldur's gate 3. At best some persons will upload their custom meshes that replace the main ones for all characters in the game.

Emm... not really? I'm a modder myself so I can judge - at least, somewhat.

The best mods & tools for TESV were created by.. modders themselves. Sure, CK came handy, but the aforementioned editors rely on SKSE - a resource created and maintained by the community. That one is a fine piece of reverse-engineering and implementing low-level APIs by "just looking at things". It's a tribute to things done "despite", not "thanks to".

And the character editors rely on things like .nif skeletons (hello another tool, NifSkope - also not a Beth doing) hand-crafted from scratch as well as body resources which were also made entirely by community in the tools created by the community (hello BodySlide + Outfit Studio, it's even open-source if I recall correctly)

This all would never have been possible in CK alone - and granted, none of said mods have anything to do with CK either way. And speaking of Fallout4 - there are body mods that just add their sliders where they should not be. Overall SKSE and F4SE is a real piece of software - not like them Papyrus scripts run by a Zend VM, they require low-level programming and actually adding stuff that was previously not there.

Oh, before I forgot - when Skyrim / Fallout4 were released, there was no CK even available and it took years for Beth to release it (and even then community had to pick up their slack in fixing bugs there and patching it). The very first mods were done in xEdit (TESVEdit or FO4Edit respectively) and you'd be surprised at how far it was possible to go in that tool alone. And xEdit was again - created by community.

Perhaps the only thing that can seriously hamper the possibility of such low-level mods like SKSE is if the game would try to actively prevent code injections (which is not outside the realm of possibilities since multiplayer is on the table). But that will have to wait till the .. real question arrives.

And the real question is - if the game will be worth it. Even in Skyrim it did not appear magically since day 1. It's years and years of first building tools, then prerequisite mods and then first versions of said body mods appeared - clunky and buggy at first. If BG3 is released next year, 2023 and is incredibly popular / replayable / whatnot then I reckon maybe by 2025 there are some hopes for such body mods.

[Ēarendel]

Dellecross původně napsal:

Ēarendel původně napsal:

Not gonna happen. We won't have the same modding accessibility or tools as we did with Bethesda's games. In Skyrim's case, there was already some framework for sliders, which was also expanded upon in Fallout 4. No such case with Baldur's gate 3. At best some persons will upload their custom meshes that replace the main ones for all characters in the game.

Emm... not really? I'm a modder myself so I can judge - at least, somewhat.

The best mods & tools for TESV were created by.. modders themselves. Sure, CK came handy, but the aforementioned editors rely on SKSE - a resource created and maintained by the community. That one is a fine piece of reverse-engineering and implementing low-level APIs by "just looking at things". It's a tribute to things done "despite", not "thanks to".

And the character editors rely on things like .nif skeletons (hello another tool, NifSkope - also not a Beth doing) hand-crafted from scratch as well as body resources which were also made entirely by community in the tools created by the community (hello BodySlide + Outfit Studio, it's even open-source if I recall correctly)

This all would never have been possible in CK alone - and granted, none of said mods have anything to do with CK either way. And speaking of Fallout4 - there are body mods that just add their sliders where they should not be. Overall SKSE and F4SE is a real piece of software - not like them Papyrus scripts run by a Zend VM, they require low-level programming and actually adding stuff that was previously not there.

Perhaps the only thing that can seriously hamper the possibility of such low-level mods like SKSE is if the game would try to actively prevent code injections (which is not outside the realm of possibilities since multiplayer is on the table). But even still - altering the game engine is not something that's unheard of. It worked in TESV and Fallout4, I'm sure it can be done here.

Real question is - if the game will be worth it. Even in Skyrim it did not appear magically since day 1. It's years and years of first building tools, then prerequisite mods and then first versions of said body mods appeared - clunky and buggy at first. If BG3 is released next year, 2023 and is incredibly popular / replayable / whatnot then I reckon maybe by 2025 there are some hopes for such body mods.

Great mr.expert, you flexed your accreditations and pointed out the obvious, mods and modding tools built by modders themselves, who could have known? What you are saying is true, and yet still there are games built with modding in mind and there are not. Bethesda games were always easy to edit since 2000's compared to the rest. I also think somebody above you already pointed out why Larian isn't adding sliders, a lack of framework which has existed in Skyrim from day 1, and was simply expanded upon with tools like bodyslide. Though perhaps I should change my wording from "not possible" to "not likely"

[id795078477]

Ēarendel původně napsal:

Great mr.expert, you flexed your accreditations and pointed out the obvious, mods and modding tools built by modders themselves, who could have known? What you are saying is true, and yet still there are games built with modding in mind and there are not. Bethesda games were always easy to edit since 2000's compared to the rest. I also think somebody above you already pointed out why Larian isn't adding sliders, a lack of framework which has existed in Skyrim from day 1, and was simply expanded upon with tools like bodyslide. Though perhaps I should change my wording from "not possible" to "not likely"

Sigh.. no offense, yet this is why I dislike going into such discussions with someone who just wants to be right, not to prove the point. If I did not mention any technical details that would be "but how do you know" or "you have no evidence". And if I thoroughly explain why I think the way I do with the tech involved - that'll be "flexing accreditations". Go figure..

Anyways - indeed there are games better suited for modding, yet in general only one thing truly defines it: popularity. If the game is very popular, it will attract great modding community which will overcome limitations of said game. Of course, the game with better modding-oriented design will receive more and better mods as a result, but it doesn't mean that games which are not mod-friendly are a lost cause.

And speaking of mod-friendliness, BG3 is not the worst of them all. It allows for static overrides at least. Folks already created "simple" stuff like new feats, spells, classes and even UI improvements and fixes. I'd like to stop it here though - again, I see it that you just want to be right - and so I'd prefer not to argue about something you're not ready to accept.

[Adam__86]

Again I would request more presets over sliders

[Ēarendel]

Dellecross původně napsal:

Ēarendel původně napsal:

Great mr.expert, you flexed your accreditations and pointed out the obvious, mods and modding tools built by modders themselves, who could have known? What you are saying is true, and yet still there are games built with modding in mind and there are not. Bethesda games were always easy to edit since 2000's compared to the rest. I also think somebody above you already pointed out why Larian isn't adding sliders, a lack of framework which has existed in Skyrim from day 1, and was simply expanded upon with tools like bodyslide. Though perhaps I should change my wording from "not possible" to "not likely"

Sigh.. no offense, yet this is why I dislike going into such discussions with someone who just wants to be right, not to prove the point. If I did not mention any technical details that would be "but how do you know" or "you have no evidence". And if I thoroughly explain why I think the way I do with the tech involved - that'll be "flexing accreditations". Go figure..

Anyways - indeed there are games better suited for modding, yet in general only one thing truly defines it: popularity. If the game is very popular, it will attract great modding community which will overcome limitations of said game. Of course, the game with better modding-oriented design will receive more and better mods as a result, but it doesn't mean that games which are not mod-friendly are a lost cause.

And speaking of mod-friendliness, BG3 is not the worst of them all. It allows for static overrides at least. Folks already created "simple" stuff like new feats, spells, classes and even UI improvements and fixes. I'd like to stop it here though - again, I see it that you just want to be right - and so I'd prefer not to argue about something you're not ready to accept.

I'm not sure its that simple though. Can you name at least one game with an engine that didnt support sliders and modders simply added them in? None come to mind for me. I would like to be wrong since sliders are cool, but you are not so convincing when you say "trust me im a modder" or "look at this unicorn of a game skyrim". I get that its possible, but not that its plausible. Does
Divinity II have anything of the sort?