The Most Ridiculous Build - Torch Ranger

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

So, just for kicks, I decided to try and build a character specializing in Torches after watching a CVG video on simple weapons.

I did a bit of research on different classes first - Rogue (for extra bonus action attacks), Druid (for Shanaynay on clubs), and Fighter for Two Weapon Fighting Style. Ultimately I settled on Ranger because, Rogues have to constantly use a bonus action to Snek Attac which cuts into the damage potential, and Torches are Str weapons, the damage from Shanaynay (if it even works on Torches, I never go that far) would only increase the damage on Torches by 2 and this wasn't as good as I can get with other options, and the Two Weapon Fighting style can be had by the Ranger as well who has additional options the Fighter doesn't.

So, I killed the cambions in the tutorial to level up fast, grabbed my torches at the crypt, and leveled up to 3 to get Colossus Slayer (grabbed Hunter's Mark at level 2 as well). At level 1 I chose Ranger Knight and Urban Tracker, although these choices are mostly irrelevant right now (there's no good heavy armor in the game, but the other choices are even more useless, and Urban Tracker just gives me sleight of hand so I can take Outlander for other skills). I chose Two Weapon Fighting style.

Str is 16, Wis is 16 too (although upon reflection, since I'm only using self-buff spells like Longstrider and Jump, I think I'd put less points into Wis and more into Con and/or Dex next time).

Both main hand and off hand attacks deal 2d4 (1d4 Bludge + 1d4 Fire) + 3 (Str, I plan to increase this to 18/+4 at level 4). Base attack deals an average of 5.5 per attack, or 11 for both main hand and off hand attack per turn.

But then we get to add Hunter's Mark. Assuming I opened combat with Hunter's Mark and get a surprise round (which is true most of the time), I would open with both attacks against my Marked target. Hunter's Mark adds an additional 1d6 to each attack I make against that target. So now I'm dealing 2d4 + 1d6 + 3 per attacks, but if I hit with the first hit (or the target already has less than full health), then Colossus slayer will deal an additional 1d6 per attack, so the first attack will be 2d4 + 1d6 + 3 and the second attack will be 2d4 + 2d6 + 3. Every subsequent attack after that will be 2d4 + 2d6 +3 per attack, or 4d4 + 4d6 + 6 per turn (this is an average of 30 damage per turn without crits).

Potions of Giant Strength are awesome for this build, immediately raising your dmg bonus to +5, for an additional +4 damage per turn.

I haven't really gear'd this build yet, not sure what would make it better aside from more speed. There's nothing that really directly benefits Torches....except maybe the items that affect fire damage...maybe I'll pick those up. Flint and Steel gloves I think? Something like that.

Only downside is that there are no magical Torches in the game, so you're giving up the ability to proc any special effects on weapons, otoh you always have light with you so you illuminate any target you're in combat with which helps your ranged characters too, especially Rogues who want to Snek Attac.

The Crypt was fun with this build, since I decimated the undead without taking a single attack. The Skeletal Scholars all fell in one hit (vuln to bludge) and the Warrior didn't last long at all. I equipped Shadowheart with a Torch and Shield just to add insult to injury (she does better with a Torch than she does with a dagger).

One problem I noticed is that the tool tip on the Torch says that it has the Burning condition, but it will NOT set Burning on targets you hit. This is unfortunate because I bought the Dragon axe from the Druid to test whether or not I could set burning with a Torch for the extra 1d4 damage from the axe (which would make it ever so slightly better than a Torch as it deals 1d6 instead of 1d4) but it didn't work, so the Torch is actually better (unless you have another reliable way of Burning targets every turn, in which case you might consider using 1 Torch and the axe in the other hand...but I switched back to dual Torches after learning this).

[dolby]

i did a search on this post, apparently you don't mention poison at all? Poison would be like the main and more or less the only reason to even bother with this build. Didn't really bother with the wall of txt after that just skimmed over it.

For some reason fire damage from torches and poison stack compared to other weapons so you can get a 3d4 simple weapon with mix damage.
Sadly i don't think there will be any magical torches... looks like they are wasting time on salami weapons instead lol.

I would't really bother with build tinkering In EA myself at least untill we get level 5 and multiclassing and with every patch those look to be a full release things...

i really hope they fix the on weapon hit attacks abilities like sneak attack... is just bad right now its like they don't care about multiclassing.

Did try Torches abit back but it looked weird cos the characters just don't really have a combat stance - with them. Makes me think devs don't really see those as valid weapon.

Hopefully all this grips will be fixed in 1.0 and we can smack some goblins with torches

[full send]

Magical torch sounds lit

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by aerith on the highwind:

Magical torch sounds lit

A Torch of Feather Fall Aura would be dope AF.

[Saathiya]

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

Druid (for Shanaynay on clubs)

What the F does this even mean? It's not the first time I've seen Shanaynay used in a way that makes no sense at all recently, so I figured maybe there's a new slang? I looked it up, and no, it means the same thing it always has.

Druid (for a slur for a ghetto black woman on clubs)???

This can't be what you mean. Aside from being meaningless nonsense, I'm sure no misanthropic intent is actually in the original post. But what the hell even is?

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Meliora:

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

Druid (for Shanaynay on clubs)

What the F does this even mean? It's not the first time I've seen Shanaynay used in a way that makes no sense at all recently, so I figured maybe there's a new slang? I looked it up, and no, it means the same thing it always has.

Druid (for a slur for a ghetto black woman on clubs)???

This can't be what you mean. Aside from being meaningless nonsense, I'm sure no misanthropic intent is actually in the original post. But what the hell even is?

Calm your naynay's, it's just a play on words.

Shillelagh = shanaynay.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

I just discovered you can also coat your torches in poison for an additional 1d4 per torch.

This brings the total up to (assuming you cast Hunter's Mark before combat started and coated both your torches with poison):

6d4 (1d4 bludge, 1d4 fire, 1d4 poison, x2)
+
4d6 (1d6 Hunter's Mark, 1d6 Colossus Slayer, x2)
+
6/8 (Strength, 16 or 18 - 3 or 4 x2)

Total: 6d4 + 4d6 + 8.
Average damage per round (if both attacks hit): 36 (does not include crits).

A 1 level dip into Barbarian and Rogue would allow you to add +2 to each hit from Rage and extra damage dice (however many you get) from Sneak Attack.

[Mosey]

Burning short sword = 1D6+1D4 for a range of 2-10
Torch = 1D4+1D4 for a range of 2-8

And torches get maybe one ability, and it's not a very good one either.

So I'd hardly call it game breaking, especially since torches are a STR only weapon. And last I checked, torches don't work with the shillelagh either.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Mosey:

Burning short sword = 1D6+1D4 for a range of 2-10
Torch = 1D4+1D4 for a range of 2-8

And torches get maybe one ability, and it's not a very good one either.

So I'd hardly call it game breaking, especially since torches are a STR only weapon. And last I checked, torches don't work with the shillelagh either.

Maybe, but you have to spend a bonus action to dip the shortsword, whereas the torch is always 2d4 and the difference between damage dies is only 1 pt. of damage on average. Burning (like poison), will only last for a couple of rounds, but a torch stays burning forever, so in extended fights you will spend fewer bonus actions re-igniting your weapon with torches, which probably makes up for having 1 smaller damage die.

No, they don't work with Shanaynay.

Dual wielding torches is like having a 1d8 weapon in each hand, that every class is proficient with and requires no additional feats to wield (although the Two Weapon Fighting Style helps so you get the ability modifier on the off hand weapon as well, which is one reason I went with Ranger). Shortswords you still have to spend bonus actions (and if you're using two, then two bonus actions) to get something comparable, and you also have to fiddle with an ignition source (which, admittedly, isn't that hard, but it's one additional step you need to take instead of just wielding two weapons that are already burning in your hands).

[Mosey]

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

Maybe, but you have to spend a bonus action to dip the shortsword, whereas the torch is always 2d4 and the difference between damage dies is only 1 pt. of damage on average.

Same reason why people act like the burning greatsword is some miracle weapon, when in fact it's just a regular greatsword that stays on fire.

It's fine if people don't want to spend a bonus action every three rounds to up their damage, but people should also not pretend like torches are the best thing ever when other weapons have way better abilities attached to them and are capable of more damage with the mildest of effort.

And again, it's a STR only weapon that amounts to a regular club that happens to be on fire. Using a torch means you're not doing any DEX builds with it and you're giving up a great weapon.

So, yeah. It works, it's not bad, but it's also not the best at anything in particular except being super low effort.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Mosey:

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

Maybe, but you have to spend a bonus action to dip the shortsword, whereas the torch is always 2d4 and the difference between damage dies is only 1 pt. of damage on average.

Same reason why people act like the burning greatsword is some miracle weapon, when in fact it's just a regular greatsword that stays on fire.

It's fine if people don't want to spend a bonus action every three rounds to up their damage, but people should also not pretend like torches are the best thing ever when other weapons have way better abilities attached to them and are capable of more damage with the mildest of effort.

And again, it's a STR only weapon that amounts to a regular club that happens to be on fire. Using a torch means you're not doing any DEX builds with it and you're giving up a great weapon.

So, yeah. It works, it's not bad, but it's also not the best at anything in particular except being super low effort.

Dude, you're not really paying attention.

Again, the difference in the dipped shortsword and a torch is a single damage die upgrade (which is on average only an additional 1 pt. of extra damage) which you must spend a bonus action (twice, if you're dual wielding) to get. Torches just get their 2d8 without any extra expenditure of actions.

Furthermore, torches can be wielded by anyone, no additional weapon proficiencies needed, so they can literally work with any class (I chose Ranger so that I could get Two Weapon Fighting Style on top of Colossus Slayer and Hunter's Mark, which I think is the highest damage output possible for this build so far, correct me if I'm wrong).

As far as weapons go, this is the highest one handed weapon damage you can get. I mean, you could also get Dual Wielder and just grab two 1d8 weapons. That works too. However, at least the torch gets two damage types (so if you're target is resistant or immune to one, you still get 1/2 damage) and requires no additional feats to dual wield, so not only can you wield 2x 1d8 weapons, but you also get the feat or ASI without having to invest to be able to wield them.

The poison is just icing on the cake.

And while you could dip shortswords (or get dual wielding and use longswords or some other heavier 1-hd weapon), you're using bonus actions and/or a feat to do so. It's a trade off, but hey, maybe I'll actually build that build next (dual longsword wielding Ranger). I'm just not a fan of having to spend 2 bonus actions every couple of turns when I could be attacking with them instead.

[Mosey]

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

As far as weapons go, this is the highest one handed weapon damage you can get. I mean, you could also get Dual Wielder and just grab two 1d8 weapons. That works too.

So I'm right, thanks. Now if you'd just admit a 1D6 is more than a 1D4 we'd get somewhere. Because that's how much a torch does, 1D4. It's literally a plain-jane club. The fire add's the same 1D4 you get from literally any fire source and can add to any weapon, it just doesn't go out every few rounds.

And again, torches work well I'm not saying they don't. They're just super low effort and have more drawbacks than you're letting on. Maybe if someone never uses a short rest ability? I don't know, seems silly to me.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Mosey:

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

As far as weapons go, this is the highest one handed weapon damage you can get. I mean, you could also get Dual Wielder and just grab two 1d8 weapons. That works too.

So I'm right, thanks. Now if you'd just admit a 1D6 is more than a 1D4 we'd get somewhere. Because that's how much a torch does, 1D4. It's literally a plain-jane club. The fire add's the same 1D4 you get from literally any fire source and can add to any weapon, it just doesn't go out every few rounds.

And again, torches work well I'm not saying they don't. They're just super low effort and have more drawbacks than you're letting on. Maybe if someone never uses a short rest ability? I don't know, seems silly to me.

Except, as was already explained to you, you have to spend multiple bonus actions (which you could be using to attack) in order to make your 1-hd sword burning. You also need proficiency in that weapon.

Overall, torches have many more advantages. You already have a fire source to ignite things like grease in your hand, don't have to spend a bonus action to get that extra damage die, etc.

[Ari]

Originally posted by Meliora:

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

Druid (for Shanaynay on clubs)

What the F does this even mean? It's not the first time I've seen Shanaynay used in a way that makes no sense at all recently, so I figured maybe there's a new slang? I looked it up, and no, it means the same thing it always has.

Druid (for a slur for a ghetto black woman on clubs)???

This can't be what you mean. Aside from being meaningless nonsense, I'm sure no misanthropic intent is actually in the original post. But what the hell even is?

I was also like what the hell is he typing. I thought he was just typing some random word or was Dyslexic or something lol. Until I finally got it at the end. Guess he was just trying to be funny, idk.

[Imnuktam]

Couldnt help but think of this post and title the other night when I equipped a salami as a weapon and beat a goblin to death with it.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Mosey:

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

As far as weapons go, this is the highest one handed weapon damage you can get. I mean, you could also get Dual Wielder and just grab two 1d8 weapons. That works too.

So I'm right, thanks. Now if you'd just admit a 1D6 is more than a 1D4 we'd get somewhere. Because that's how much a torch does, 1D4. It's literally a plain-jane club. The fire add's the same 1D4 you get from literally any fire source and can add to any weapon, it just doesn't go out every few rounds.

And again, torches work well I'm not saying they don't. They're just super low effort and have more drawbacks than you're letting on. Maybe if someone never uses a short rest ability? I don't know, seems silly to me.

I don't think he claimed it was the best build in the game, just that it's effective. Surprisingly effective since you'd expect weapons to be better than torches, which they aren't really unless you consistently keep them on fire.

Obviously magic weapons kinda beat torches too.