I love Astarion

[NEIS]

I just been seeing a lot of hate for the sassy vampire boy, so I wanted to promote some love XD.

I think he is really fun and I love all the personality he has (the voice actor is amazing, and the animations are so expressive!). I get he is cruel, but I'm playing as a true neutral/ slightly evil future necromancer (forn now I can just speak with dead... I'll be able to raise them one day, hopefully), so yeah, I'm not being very nice in the playthrough, and Astarion is the best partner in crime ^^

Maybe at some point I'll do a good playthrough with Gale or Will, but for now Astarion is my number 1! What do you think? do you agree or are you having more fun with the other companions?

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

All characters in BG3 are playersexual. Think of it like the quantum wave function. Their sexuality isn't determined until you, the player, observes it (that is, determines it by sleeping with them...or not).

They are not gay, they are not straight, they are not bisexual. At least, not until you observe them and make them one of those things. But they aren't written as any particular sexual orientation.

Astarion is a noble. He's written as a kind of court fop. This has nothing to do with sexuality at all. He's also a vampire, so his fopishness is sort of enhanced by this, what with the whole lusting for blood thing which gets heavily tied into his accent and manner of speaking.

The fact that some people associate medieval high society fopishness with homosexuality says more about them than anything else.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Publicado originalmente por God Queen 158:

I find the perception of Astarion's traits so bizarre. I see him as a posh, flamboyant stereotype, but not necessarily gay. He's a modern vampire trope and very popular with women. Vampires nowadays tend to be perceived as bisexual in order to seduce as many people as possible and have access to blood. His romance doesn't do it for me, but it checks a lot of boxes of what I consider a heterosexual woman might lowkey be into. But perhaps this is more of a thing for women who spend a lot of time in fandom spaces.

Seeing most straight men view Astarion as gay makes me dismiss the idea. But then I start getting afraid maybe Astarion is appealing to straight women because he's like that but also FOR women? Man I dunno. I'm a Beauty and the Beast type gal rather than the Twilight sort. So I may be just as lost as others as to the appeal.

Not most. Not even close. Really it's just a subset of alt-right culture warriors who love to attack everything that doesn't fit their narrow and restrictive view of what masculinity is.

If it's not Conan the Barbarian, then it must be "gay"...in their myopic world view.

Their battlecry:

CHEW BRICKS...BREW...CHICKS...CHEW BRICKS...BREW...CHICKS...

[God Queen 158]

Publicado originalmente por pandariuskairos:

All characters in BG3 are playersexual. Think of it like the quantum wave function. Their sexuality isn't determined until you, the player, observes it (that is, determines it by sleeping with them...or not).

They are not gay, they are not straight, they are not bisexual. At least, not until you observe them and make them one of those things. But they aren't written as any particular sexual orientation.

I also prefer to view them as playersexual because that's how they work mechanically and I like for games to shape nicely into whatever story I want to tell. But I do wonder if any of the writers had an intent in mind.

I think in a stream however, the VA for Astarion outright said that Astarion is pan. And seemed to make the assertion quite seriously.

Publicado originalmente por pandariuskairos:

Astarion is a noble. He's written as a kind of court fop. This has nothing to do with sexuality at all. He's also a vampire, so his fopishness is sort of enhanced by this, what with the whole lusting for blood thing which gets heavily tied into his accent and manner of speaking.

That's what I think too - so I may have just been gaslighting myself. It does feel like for some people, a man who is ok and overt about not acting in masculine ways MUST mean that he must be gay. The thinking is "What woman would be attracted to that?"

I suppose one thing I should add is the fact that most super-fans of Astarion pair their female self inserts with them - not a male OC. So it does seem to point to Astarion appealing to a female fantasy and not a gay stereotype or even appealing to fans of boys love. Which I think is a big indicator. There is not much slash fanart of Astarion.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

It does feel like for some people, a man who is ok and overt about not acting in masculine ways MUST mean that he must be gay. The thinking is "What woman would be attracted to that?"

As a straight male, what has always baffled me is the aversion straight men have to gay men in the first place. I wish there were more gay men in the world. Less competition that way. Every gay couple means two fewer potential rivals in the mating market. They are eliminating the competition. I would think that straight men would welcome as many gay men as possible for this reason.

Thus my motto, "If most men were gay, I'd get laid, every day!"

[Jack Hawklight]

Publicado originalmente por pandariuskairos:

It does feel like for some people, a man who is ok and overt about not acting in masculine ways MUST mean that he must be gay. The thinking is "What woman would be attracted to that?"

As a straight male, what has always baffled me is the aversion straight men have to gay men in the first place. I wish there were more gay men in the world. Less competition that way. Every gay couple means two fewer potential rivals in the mating market. They are eliminating the competition. I would think that straight men would welcome as many gay men as possible for this reason.

Thus my motto, "If most men were gay, I'd get laid, every day!"

This is definitely true. I've even been hit on by gay men occasionally and it never really bothered me. If anything it is kind of flattering in a way. Once you tell them you are straight they just back off and say sorry.

Edit: I actually feel kind of bad for them because they are really sorry as if they had done something really wrong. But it is just who they are. If they are respectful about it, it isn't a big deal at all. Or shouldn't be anyway. If a guy hits on a girl respectfully and she says no, the guy doesn't feel ashamed at all about it. Just doesn't really seem fair.

[God King 069]

Publicado originalmente por God Queen 158:

Publicado originalmente por pandariuskairos:

All characters in BG3 are playersexual. Think of it like the quantum wave function. Their sexuality isn't determined until you, the player, observes it (that is, determines it by sleeping with them...or not).

They are not gay, they are not straight, they are not bisexual. At least, not until you observe them and make them one of those things. But they aren't written as any particular sexual orientation.

I also prefer to view them as playersexual because that's how they work mechanically and I like for games to shape nicely into whatever story I want to tell. But I do wonder if any of the writers had an intent in mind.

I think in a stream however, the VA for Astarion outright said that Astarion is pan. And seemed to make the assertion quite seriously.

Publicado originalmente por pandariuskairos:

Astarion is a noble. He's written as a kind of court fop. This has nothing to do with sexuality at all. He's also a vampire, so his fopishness is sort of enhanced by this, what with the whole lusting for blood thing which gets heavily tied into his accent and manner of speaking.

That's what I think too - so I may have just been gaslighting myself. It does feel like for some people, a man who is ok and overt about not acting in masculine ways MUST mean that he must be gay. The thinking is "What woman would be attracted to that?"

I suppose one thing I should add is the fact that most super-fans of Astarion pair their female self inserts with them - not a male OC. So it does seem to point to Astarion appealing to a female fantasy and not a gay stereotype or even appealing to fans of boys love. Which I think is a big indicator. There is not much slash fanart of Astarion.

Of course you think that way because you don't seem to understand what fop actually means. There's fop and then there's flamboyant. Look at the definitions please before chiming in. Pandarius gets a pass because pandarius isn't even worth giving the time of day to but you're riding up there as well.

There are plenty great examples of fop personalities who are not flamboyant. And while YES there is a perception that exsists that ties flamboyancy to being gay which is absolutely dumb BUT it exists nonetheless. That said it's not whether he is gay or not (player sexual is the dumbest ass term) for a great many of us. It's his personality. It's that every thing every fiber of his being is performance art and it's too over the top. It's not even arguable because you should be able to see between a few different threads just how many people feel this way.

BUT AGAIN it doesn't matter. Why do you care what character someone else chooses or doesn't choose to play? Larian isn't getting rid of the character or changing him so not sure why this is even a discussion.

[Jack Hawklight]

Publicado originalmente por 8BallQue:

Of course you think that way because you don't seem to understand what fop actually means. There's fop and then there's flamboyant. Look at the definitions please before chiming in. Pandarius gets a pass because pandarius isn't even worth giving the time of day to but you're riding up there as well.

There are plenty great examples of fop personalities who are not flamboyant. And while YES there is a perception that exsists that ties flamboyancy to being gay which is absolutely dumb BUT it exists nonetheless. That said it's not whether he is gay or not (player sexual is the dumbest ass term) for a great many of us. It's his personality. It's that every thing every fiber of his being is performance art and it's too over the top. It's not even arguable because you should be able to see between a few different threads just how many people feel this way.

BUT AGAIN it doesn't matter. Why do you care what character someone else chooses or doesn't choose to play? Larian isn't getting rid of the character or changing him so not sure why this is even a discussion.

Why not discuss it? The forum is to discuss everything BG3. It is of course arguable or worthy of discussion even if many people feel a certain way about it. You are right though flamboyancy being tied to being homosexual is absolutely ridiculous. I don't mind him being kind of over the top. That is just what his character is. He is all about fun. Sometimes he is funny. Which is more than I can say for Gale.

Edit: I personally don't care whether people choose to use him in their play through or not. I do if he fits, if he doesn't he stays at camp. All depends on who my MC is.

[God King 069]

Publicado originalmente por Jack Hawklight:

Publicado originalmente por 8BallQue:

Of course you think that way because you don't seem to understand what fop actually means. There's fop and then there's flamboyant. Look at the definitions please before chiming in. Pandarius gets a pass because pandarius isn't even worth giving the time of day to but you're riding up there as well.

There are plenty great examples of fop personalities who are not flamboyant. And while YES there is a perception that exsists that ties flamboyancy to being gay which is absolutely dumb BUT it exists nonetheless. That said it's not whether he is gay or not (player sexual is the dumbest ass term) for a great many of us. It's his personality. It's that every thing every fiber of his being is performance art and it's too over the top. It's not even arguable because you should be able to see between a few different threads just how many people feel this way.

BUT AGAIN it doesn't matter. Why do you care what character someone else chooses or doesn't choose to play? Larian isn't getting rid of the character or changing him so not sure why this is even a discussion.

Why not discuss it? The forum is to discuss everything BG3. It is of course arguable or worthy of discussion even if many people feel a certain way about it. You are right though flamboyancy being tied to being homosexual is absolutely ridiculous. I don't mind him being kind of over the top. That is just what his character is. He is all about fun. Sometimes he is funny. Which is more than I can say for Gale.

Edit: I personally don't care whether people choose to use him in their play through or not. I do if he fits, if he doesn't he stays at camp. All depends on who my MC is.

How much sense does a fop thief make Jack? And I'm not talking about the type that steals paintings, I'm talking about the type that gets dirty, hides in whatever shadows help get the job done, pick pocketing, back stabbing, springing all sorts of nasty traps, etc.

And even if you could make it work say that his lord made him do such things it's still extreme and doesn't say much for Larian's writing and the individuals in the current companion group is actually part off the entire problem as they aren't believable like I don't care how much you picked individuals based on a skill set or what have you to get these personalities you would have to be actively looking for them BASED on their personalities.

While I get there may be more coming, the current group is way too damn extreme in terms of individuals to make any damn sense at all heh.

[NEIS]

Publicado originalmente por pandariuskairos:

Astarion is a noble. He's written as a kind of court fop. This has nothing to do with sexuality at all. He's also a vampire, so his fopishness is sort of enhanced by this, what with the whole lusting for blood thing which gets heavily tied into his accent and manner of speaking.

I agree that his personality comes from this, the concept of a medieval cortesan vampire, it fits him very well. This game isn't like Dragon Age, where the gender affects who you can romance, then it makes sense for sexuality to play a role in defining the characters, but in BG3 it doesn't, so they wouldn't have it be something that affects their personality.

Publicado originalmente por pandariuskairos:

That's what I think too - so I may have just been gaslighting myself. It does feel like for some people, a man who is ok and overt about not acting in masculine ways MUST mean that he must be gay. The thinking is "What woman would be attracted to that?"

I suppose one thing I should add is the fact that most super-fans of Astarion pair their female self inserts with them - not a male OC. So it does seem to point to Astarion appealing to a female fantasy and not a gay stereotype or even appealing to fans of boys love. Which I think is a big indicator. There is not much slash fanart of Astarion.

As an heterosexual woman I can confirm that girls do find characters like Astarion very attractive. We have moved on from the classic masculine male, not to say that's not attractive, but that's not the ONLY attractive. I mean, just check korean dramas, the males are not paticurarly manly and still are extremely popular with women, So yeah, there are many versions of attractive men, and a playful and flirty vampire its one of them.

Publicado originalmente por 8BallQue:

[quote=Jack
How much sense does a fop thief make Jack? And I'm not talking about the type that steals paintings, I'm talking about the type that gets dirty, hides in whatever shadows help get the job done, pick pocketing, back stabbing, springing all sorts of nasty traps, etc.

And even if you could make it work say that his lord made him do such things it's still extreme and doesn't say much for Larian's writing and the individuals in the current companion group is actually part off the entire problem as they aren't believable like I don't care how much you picked individuals based on a skill set or what have you to get these personalities you would have to be actively looking for them BASED on their personalities.

While I get there may be more coming, the current group is way too damn extreme in terms of individuals to make any damn sense at all heh.

I'm not sure if you've ever played DnD, but it is a game full of creativity. Yeah you can play as an stereotipical rogue, with a dark edgy personality, but you can also play something completely different, I've had friends even play rogues that use intimidation to convince people to keep quiet instead of stealth. Its all about having fun, the character of Astarion makes sense as a rogue, being flamboyant in the conversations doesn't mean he can't keep quiet while sneaking XD, plus, a lot of can be an act to seem more well of than he is, after all he gives the impresion of nobility when he was actually a slave. Also, it comes to the way you play him, you can go with an arcane trickster rogue, a class that its characteristic for being playful and tricksy, and I feel like that fits Astarion's personality very well.

I think Lorian did a good job in creating characters that are fun, interesting and creative... but all of this its subjective, its just a shame, a big part of the enjoyment of the game comes from the companions, so I hope you get one you like (doesn't have to be Astarion of course, that's just my preference ^^)

[Beta Ray Shill]

He’s a successful creation, since he’s built up an obvious fan base. I’m never going to enjoy something like twilight, but that too is a successful product. I can respect a winning business idea, even if I think it’s campy or crass. I will say I find his popularity baffling – but then, I’ve also read comments on reddit where people have written ‘I just seem to understand him, he makes sense to me’ etc.

To a certain type, he’s clearly ‘relatable’. And he does have a strong female following.

Either way, flamboyancy tends to be associated with gayness, since – as I’ve read elsewhere – there are more gay men than straight men who are less inhibited in expressing non-traditionally masculine traits. Straight men who behave a little too differently for their own good tend to be disliked and even hated by other straight men. I personally know a ‘foppish’ man who was eventually outcast by his own group of friends, when one of them snapped one night and decked him when he wouldn’t stop boasting. He was always bragging about the girls he’d pulled, was narcissistic, preening, popular with girls and hated by men, and he would show off shamelessly: expensive new car etc.

He’s a harmless individual deep down, and possessed of a comical cowardice – he actually dragged a bouncer over to me and his girlfriend one night, because he claimed I was chatting her up. Just have a think about that.

Despite the above, I don’t mind the chap and almost pity him in a sense. He has had no male friends for several years, and only goes out with groups of girls, since they genuinely click with his personality.

Going off stereotypes, you might think this fancily dressed, slickly groomed and dandyish male – who only hangs out with groups of good looking girls – is ‘gay’, but he’s straight as an arrow. Though while there are straight Astarion types, they are very few in number versus the gay equivalents IMO, for a number of reasons: emphasis on straight male conformity, and a strong dislike of straight men who don’t confirm within the ‘pack’.

Finally, so much of the BG3 story is so nonsensical, especially if looked at in any minor detail, that I never notice if the characters’ backgrounds make even an iota of sense.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Publicado originalmente por NEIS:

I'm not sure if you've ever played DnD, but it is a game full of creativity. Yeah you can play as an stereotipical rogue, with a dark edgy personality, but you can also play something completely different, I've had friends even play rogues that use intimidation to convince people to keep quiet instead of stealth. Its all about having fun, the character of Astarion makes sense as a rogue, being flamboyant in the conversations doesn't mean he can't keep quiet while sneaking XD, plus, a lot of can be an act to seem more well of than he is, after all he gives the impresion of nobility when he was actually a slave. Also, it comes to the way you play him, you can go with an arcane trickster rogue, a class that its characteristic for being playful and tricksy, and I feel like that fits Astarion's personality very well.

I think Lorian did a good job in creating characters that are fun, interesting and creative... but all of this its subjective, its just a shame, a big part of the enjoyment of the game comes from the companions, so I hope you get one you like (doesn't have to be Astarion of course, that's just my preference ^^)

This is a huge reach and I get it. You love the interview with a vampire stereotype. The problem is he is way above and beyond that in terms of personality and 8ball is correct in that he would be described as flamboyant and if women find that attractive.....cool. But I guarantee there are equally a number of women who find his personality over the top as I and other people do.

On the whole I agree with Goad in that the character is a successful creation but I also agree with others that he is one of the choices of extreme personality types. I can also very easily understand the sentimentality that associates his flamboyant personality as feeding into the gay stereotype.

And to pile onto Goad's and 8ball's subsequent point the characters are so over the top that it's extremely hard to take them seriously.

[Corridian]

Publicado originalmente por pandariuskairos:

All characters in BG3 are playersexual. Think of it like the quantum wave function. Their sexuality isn't determined until you, the player, observes it (that is, determines it by sleeping with them...or not).

They are not gay, they are not straight, they are not bisexual. At least, not until you observe them and make them one of those things. But they aren't written as any particular sexual orientation.

Astarion is a noble. He's written as a kind of court fop. This has nothing to do with sexuality at all. He's also a vampire, so his fopishness is sort of enhanced by this, what with the whole lusting for blood thing which gets heavily tied into his accent and manner of speaking.

The fact that some people associate medieval high society fopishness with homosexuality says more about them than anything else.

You can rationalize it all you want.
Astarion is not written as "high society anything", He is written as an over the top trope. Gay. Twink, caricature of what ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Ann Rice did to vampires. ♥♥♥♥ her.

Wokeness is important.
My son, who is gay, my daughter who is bi, and my best friend who is gay, all are deeply offended by the over the top flagrant stereotypical ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of Astarion. He, unlike Gale (whom I hate much more) is definitely written as a trope twinkie over the top gay vampire caricature
♥♥♥♥ all you who are going to say "oh another one of those who secretly hates or is in the closet or whatever and is bringing family, neighbors, friends in blah blah blah" You dumb ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ understand nothing. I am very very very supportive of my children and their sexuality as well as that of my best friend.

♥♥♥♥ Gale
♥♥♥♥ Astarion
♥♥♥♥ Wyll
♥♥♥♥ Ann Rice
Unrelated but ♥♥♥♥ Todd Howard- I hate him, and figure I will just toss him in for good measure lol
Peace

[Rance-sama]

idk man i never rly jumped to the conclusion that he was a gay stereotype or w/e he seems more like a sociopathic libertine to me not jack from will and grace

[Jack Hawklight]

I just like Astarion, as I said he is entertaining, sometimes funny. I actually don't mind the characters being 'a little over the top' as some have said they are, if they are. I mean, I'm here to play a fantasy game. I don't mind if they are that way as long as I find them interesting. I'm here for something that is a different than reality. I get the TT players being upset, but I am just a humble gamer and a guy who likes simplicity. If the game is fun to me I'll play it, if not I will not. I'm not going to over analyse each character to death.

[NEIS]

Publicado originalmente por Corridian:

[
Astarion is not written as "high society anything", He is written as an over the top trope. Gay. Twink, caricature of what ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Ann Rice did to vampires. ♥♥♥♥ her.

I don't really agree, if you check out 18th century france or medieval cortesans, their aesthetic and manerisms are quite close to what we can see in Astarion. It is true that those tropes have also been used to represent over the top gay characters in some pop-media, but that isn't their origin and I don't thank that's what Larian was going for, specially considering that Astarion's origin is "noble" and the setting is medieval times. Even aesthetically, his clothes kinda look like 18th century male fasion in Europe, which doensn't mean all these men were homosexual, it just was a different standard for what men where expected to wear and how they should act.

I agree that many women also don't like Astarion, just as many gay men or people with other sexualities won't like him, he is a very extreme character with a very over-the-top personality, something that you either hate or love. Liking something or not its beyond gender and sexuality, you just like what you like.

This is a open discussion about a character and I'm just argumenting why I don't agree with the opinion you have stated, but none of this is an attack to yourself nor do I belive that you are againts homosexuality or anything like that. The only part I dissagree with you is the jugdment on Astarion character design and the intention behind it. Maybe I'll convince you, maybe not, but that's what the forum its for, sharing different views.

Publicado originalmente por Corridian:

♥♥♥♥ Gale
♥♥♥♥ Astarion
♥♥♥♥ Wyll
♥♥♥♥ Ann Rice
Unrelated but ♥♥♥♥ Todd Howard- I hate him, and figure I will just toss him in for good measure lol
Peace

I`m kinda curious now, you have been very expressive in what you hate XD, but who do you like? is there any companion that you enjoy taking on adventures or no one has won you over yet?