Guidance Is A Terrible Spell

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

I bet people are thinking, "But wait, Guidance is SO GOOD! I can use it in nearly every situation, it's a cantrip, and it's available to several classes as well as an amulet that let's ANYONE use it! What's not to like?"

Well...all of that.

Guidance is a universally good spell. This is the first mark against it. There shouldn't be any universally good spells (Bless, for example, comes close to being universally good...except that it's only good in combat, and doesn't lower enemy saving throws...but it comes close and is heavily favored over Bane).

Any spell which is universally good becomes nearly mandatory. Since it's universally good, there's almost never a time when you wouldn't want it. There's nothing selective about it. You just always want it.

It requires concentration. Now, I have all kinds of thoughts about concentration in general, but specifically when it comes to this spell, needing concentration when combined with it's universal applicability means that you must dedicate at least one character to not using concentration - at least out of combat. With so many all day spells (Longstrider, Shield of Faith, etc.) to concentrate on, keeping a character's concentration free all the time for a cantrip is sort of a big deal. You can, of course, give the amulet to any character that only needs to concentrate during combat only, but what if you create a party where all members have an all-day concentration spell they need to keep up and you can't keep wasting spell slots renewing it every time you need to cast Guidance (which is all the damn time, since Guidance is, as we established, universally good)? Another solution would be to remove concentration as a requirement from Guidance, since it's just a cantrip anyway and infinitely renewable, the only benefit this has is that it becomes stackable in combat with other bonuses, but I don't believe it's that bad. Shorten it's duration to like 3 turns or something (so you basically use it just before a check, or as a reaction to a roll like you can now), but remove concentration then you don't have to worry about it conflicting with all-day spells.

That only solves the concentration issue though, not the fact that one cantrip is universally good in all situations.

Lately, I've been playing without using it at all, whether it's available to me or not, and instead figuring out ways to just pass checks with other bonuses and without the use of Guidance. I find the game is actually more fun without it. Guidance is, in some ways, very reminiscent of Pathfinder's issue with "pre-buffing" before every battle, except in this case it's "pre-buff" before you go anywhere, as there might be some random perception check or something you stumble across so you want to constantly have this spell up just in case. It becomes a mandatory tedium, in other words. It's not fun or strategic or tactical - it's just something you constantly spam to get the highest result possible and it's universal applicability just means you never want to let it down, except maybe in combat since it has the least amount of use there.

Personally, I'd just get rid of the spell, but I know that there's a whole chorus of voices out there that would hate this, so in this particular case I just practice what I preach - I avoid using it. My games are a lot more fun without Guidance.

[Dragon Sin]

I only use it as a tool to reduce save-scumming since I hate that my max charisma character with proficiency bonuses in deception can fail to trick a damned goblin due to dice rolls.

I just really dislike being locked out of content in a static game when I've made a purpose-built character just for persuasion checks. I would probably dislike the skill in actual tabletop though, because there the DM can adjust the story to the group's liking even if I fail a speech check or two, and there are usually ways to adapt to failing that just aren't present in a video game.

I suppose it would be fairly broken if you like total randomness in your playthroughs though, so to each their own.

[Metallicus]

Just like every player in my tabletop games take the improved initiative feat. It is so good they all take it so I sort of get where you are coming from.

[Mosey]

It's a concentration spell, so using it can cancel shield of faith, bless, or a host of other spells that you could otherwise carry between two close by encounters.

Not a big downside, but I know I've screwed that up before and slapped my forehead at how dumb I just was.

Also in fairness, Resistance is also a pretty universally amazing cantrip. Arguably stronger than Guidance in actual life or death scenarios.

[Brimcon]

I find myself either forgetting to use guidance or not needing to use it at all.

Granted, I haven't played BG3 recently but in both tabletop and Solasta even with the spell available to me, my checks are high enough not to matter.

[mayrc]

Well concentration is the DnD5e pest. There was never a need for it. If you wanted to nerv clerics there would have been a thousand better ways. Concentration is only there because balancing a class was too much work for them.

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by Mosey:

It's a concentration spell, so using it can cancel shield of faith, bless, or a host of other spells that you could otherwise carry between two close by encounters.

Not a big downside, but I know I've screwed that up before and slapped my forehead at how dumb I just was.

Also in fairness, Resistance is also a pretty universally amazing cantrip. Arguably stronger than Guidance in actual life or death scenarios.

Only problem with Resistance is that it's a bit harder to use proactively than Guidance and is supplanted almost completely by Bless, but can still be nice at times.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

Originally posted by Mosey:

It's a concentration spell, so using it can cancel shield of faith, bless, or a host of other spells that you could otherwise carry between two close by encounters.

Not a big downside, but I know I've screwed that up before and slapped my forehead at how dumb I just was.

Also in fairness, Resistance is also a pretty universally amazing cantrip. Arguably stronger than Guidance in actual life or death scenarios.

Only problem with Resistance is that it's a bit harder to use proactively than Guidance and is supplanted almost completely by Bless, but can still be nice at times.

Yes, exactly. I always use Bless instead.

Originally posted by mayrc:

Well concentration is the DnD5e pest. There was never a need for it. If you wanted to nerv clerics there would have been a thousand better ways. Concentration is only there because balancing a class was too much work for them.

I think concentration is good conceptually, but the problem is that they limited it to only one spell. It's a very binary, either/or system.

Instead, they should have allowed casters to concentrate on up to their spell casting modifier in spells, and concentration checks have a -1 penalty per spell beyond the first. Maybe even have casters make a concentration check every turn (if concentrating on more than one spell) regardless of whether they took damage or not. If you fail a concentration roll, you lose one concentration spell at random.

[Mosey]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

Only problem with Resistance is that it's a bit harder to use proactively than Guidance and is supplanted almost completely by Bless, but can still be nice at times.

It's true that it's basically a much weaker partial bless spell, but it doesn't cost a spell slot and once you know what fights do what it's not hard to precast it on yourself.

I do this all the time on the Harpy fight, it's a huge help. Well, you know, at least for my character anyway ^_-

Concentration in BG3 is a bit wonky, too. I suspect it will be changed to be more like tabletop once there are a bunch more spells with persistent effects. Otherwise casters that don't just memorize fireball and magic missile will be pretty heavily nerfed.

[droggen]

I disagree I would say Friendship is an awful spell, Sure you can use it to boost charisma based checks out of combat but it can now only be used vs enemies or non hostile NPC any attempt to use it on companions leads them to hating you far more then any positives you gain. I'm not sure if this is working as intended but I never see any reason to grab this spel/cantrip anymore.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by droggen:

I disagree I would say Friendship is an awful spell, Sure you can use it to boost charisma based checks out of combat but it can now only be used vs enemies or non hostile NPC any attempt to use it on companions leads them to hating you far more then any positives you gain. I'm not sure if this is working as intended but I never see any reason to grab this spel/cantrip anymore.

Ok, but you're looking at it from exactly opposite the perspective I'm looking at it from.

Friendship is a great spell because it's limited in how you can use it.

You know when Friendship rocks? When you don't care that the target is going to become hostile at the end of the conversation. Use it to pass the guards inside the entrance to teh goblin encampment.

The problem with Guidance is that it's always useful, and this tends to make it mandatory.

[Brimcon]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

The problem with Guidance is that it's always useful, and this tends to make it mandatory.

But guidance is not mandatory at all. Its just very accessible. Having it helps, but its just a 1d4.

[droggen]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

Originally posted by droggen:

I disagree I would say Friendship is an awful spell, Sure you can use it to boost charisma based checks out of combat but it can now only be used vs enemies or non hostile NPC any attempt to use it on companions leads them to hating you far more then any positives you gain. I'm not sure if this is working as intended but I never see any reason to grab this spel/cantrip anymore.

Ok, but you're looking at it from exactly opposite the perspective I'm looking at it from.

Friendship is a great spell because it's limited in how you can use it.

You know when Friendship rocks? When you don't care that the target is going to become hostile at the end of the conversation. Use it to pass the guards inside the entrance to teh goblin encampment.

The problem with Guidance is that it's always useful, and this tends to make it mandatory.

Oh sorry I get what you're saying in this case then I do agree with you, I can't think of the last time I did a run without having guidance on at least one companion that extra 1D4 can really be a life saver on rolls outside of combat.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Brimcon:

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

The problem with Guidance is that it's always useful, and this tends to make it mandatory.

But guidance is not mandatory at all. Its just very accessible. Having it helps, but its just a 1d4.

In D&D, a +4 is +20% to your roll.

[Brimcon]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

Originally posted by Brimcon:

But guidance is not mandatory at all. Its just very accessible. Having it helps, but its just a 1d4.

In D&D, a +4 is +20% to your roll.

I am aware. Again I've played a lot of D&D in many forms. Both as DM and Player. Sometimes its a 1, sometimes its a 4. Sometimes not even that +4 helps, Its not mandatory.

[Indure]

It's only available for 2 classes, and honestly it shouldn't exist on an amulet because it minimizes one of the benefits of those classes.

It really is only benefitial outside of combat and its meant to be a little bit harder to preemptively cast. The big problem is the quality of life changes in this game that gives it to you on demand. Still not really broken because it is just an average 10% increase at thebcost of concentration.