Critical hits should be homebrewed

[Gulabius Jamunius]

As of right now, critical hits just double the amount of dice you roll. So a 1d4 dagger crit attack turns into 2d4. There is nothing more underwhelming than critting and rolling two 1's on the damage roll. Larian should change it so that the first roll is guaranteed to high roll, and then the additional roll can still be rng. This is better so that crits will always put out more damage than the best regular attack.

[RealDealBreaker]

Better... in your opinion.

[Gulabius Jamunius]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Better... in your opinion.

Yes, i hate to break it to you. The post I wrote arguing for changing the way critical hits are calculated is in my opinion. How insightful of you.

Anyway the issue I pointed out gets exacerbated with higher damage spells/attacks. Let's say I crit the spell inflict wounds, which takes the damage roll from 3d10 to 6d10. Keep in mind I only have a 5% chance to crit. I can theoretically roll six 1's for a total damage of 6 on this critting inflict wounds. How can you say this is not dumb? if I crit for 6 damage when I normally already have the potential of 30 damage, is it really a critical hit?

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by Gulab Jamun:

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Better... in your opinion.

Yes, i hate to break it to you. The post I wrote arguing for changing the way critical hits are calculated is in my opinion. How insightful of you.

Anyway the issue I pointed out gets exacerbated with higher damage spells/attacks. Let's say I crit the spell inflict wounds, which takes the damage roll from 3d10 to 6d10. Keep in mind I only have a 5% chance to crit. I can theoretically roll six 1's for a total damage of 6 on this critting inflict wounds. How can you say this is not dumb? if I crit for 6 damage when I normally already have the potential of 30 damage, is it really a critical hit?

yes it is becasue it always hits regardless of the enemy AC and you have the POTENTIAL to do far more damage than a normal hit. But just like you can roll all 1s on any other die roll, you can also roll all 1s on the additional crit dice.

[Gulabius Jamunius]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Originally posted by Gulab Jamun:

Yes, i hate to break it to you. The post I wrote arguing for changing the way critical hits are calculated is in my opinion. How insightful of you.

Anyway the issue I pointed out gets exacerbated with higher damage spells/attacks. Let's say I crit the spell inflict wounds, which takes the damage roll from 3d10 to 6d10. Keep in mind I only have a 5% chance to crit. I can theoretically roll six 1's for a total damage of 6 on this critting inflict wounds. How can you say this is not dumb? if I crit for 6 damage when I normally already have the potential of 30 damage, is it really a critical hit?

yes it is becasue it always hits regardless of the enemy AC and you have the POTENTIAL to do far more damage than a normal hit. But just like you can roll all 1s on any other die roll, you can also roll all 1s on the additional crit dice.

You bring up a good point about landing hits regardless of AC. However, I've never had an issue with hitting enemies in bg3, so this perk of crits has very little value to me. There are already so many ways to increase chance to hit (like bless, faerie fire) or reduce enemy AC (acid splash, chromatic orb) not to mention high ground, sneaking, etc. I don't see this as a good tradeoff for not calculating crits in the way i suggested. I am fine with rolling 1's on the additional crit dice, just not the regular damage rolls. Given how rare it is to crit with little to no way of increasing crit chance, there should be more oomph in the damage rolls when you do land a crit.

[HopeJesus4evs]

Originally posted by Gulab Jamun:

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Better... in your opinion.

Yes, i hate to break it to you. The post I wrote arguing for changing the way critical hits are calculated is in my opinion. How insightful of you.

Anyway the issue I pointed out gets exacerbated with higher damage spells/attacks. Let's say I crit the spell inflict wounds, which takes the damage roll from 3d10 to 6d10. Keep in mind I only have a 5% chance to crit. I can theoretically roll six 1's for a total damage of 6 on this critting inflict wounds. How can you say this is not dumb? if I crit for 6 damage when I normally already have the potential of 30 damage, is it really a critical hit?

Well, that's "theoretically" 3dmg better than you'd normally get, if you were to roll 1 on 3 "normal" dices. So I still see it as a win

All in all, your post sounds like you're not really into RNG, so maybe try different game, mods, or cheats?

RNG can be a drag, but changing it too much (especially in "take high dmg") can result in stuff like some enemies one-shotting you, for example.

P.S.
Regarding "crit always hit". While true, in 5e that's not a real issue.
Given how the system is build and run, normally you'd need to roll 8-10 to hit an enemy of appropriate CR for your level.

[Gulabius Jamunius]

Originally posted by Tinball:

I disagree. Wait till you pally crits with smites. Or my fave crit is a rogue with like 4d6 sneak attack. Add in some poison on top of that and you will crit for oodles of damage.

In D&D sometimes the dice do roll in your favor. Yes if you rolled all 1s on damage, then it's still a crit, just not a very good one. Your PC needs more practice. :)

I could see how critting smite could be busted, but isn't that only because you can choose to use smite after you rolled the crit? As it stands now, the reactions system doesn't work that way. So you'd have to preemptively use smite and then get lucky with a crit, which is less busted.

[Gulabius Jamunius]

Originally posted by HopeJesus4evs:

Originally posted by Gulab Jamun:

Yes, i hate to break it to you. The post I wrote arguing for changing the way critical hits are calculated is in my opinion. How insightful of you.

Anyway the issue I pointed out gets exacerbated with higher damage spells/attacks. Let's say I crit the spell inflict wounds, which takes the damage roll from 3d10 to 6d10. Keep in mind I only have a 5% chance to crit. I can theoretically roll six 1's for a total damage of 6 on this critting inflict wounds. How can you say this is not dumb? if I crit for 6 damage when I normally already have the potential of 30 damage, is it really a critical hit?

Well, that's "theoretically" 3dmg better than you'd normally get, if you were to roll 1 on 3 "normal" dices. So I still see it as a win

All in all, your post sounds like you're not really into RNG, so maybe try different game, mods, or cheats?

RNG can be a drag, but changing it too much (especially in "take high dmg") can result in stuff like some enemies one-shotting you, for example.

I wouldn't say I love RNG, but I definitely don't mind it. I mainly think its very deflating and frankly dumb that I get that rare crit and the damage output is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. When you crit in the game you get this really cool custom animation and the dice get sliced in half. This experience gives the expectation that crits are bad ass. But if I roll 1's suddenly I realize nothing epic has happened at all. Really sucks the air out of the moment. My suggestion for changing it might be op but surely there is a middleground or better way to balance it.

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by Gulab Jamun:

Originally posted by HopeJesus4evs:

Well, that's "theoretically" 3dmg better than you'd normally get, if you were to roll 1 on 3 "normal" dices. So I still see it as a win

All in all, your post sounds like you're not really into RNG, so maybe try different game, mods, or cheats?

RNG can be a drag, but changing it too much (especially in "take high dmg") can result in stuff like some enemies one-shotting you, for example.

I wouldn't say I love RNG, but I definitely don't mind it. I mainly think its very deflating and frankly dumb that I get that rare crit and the damage output is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Like in the game you get this really cool animation and the dice get sliced in half. This experience gives the expectation that crits are bad ass. But if I roll 1's suddenly I realize nothing epic has happened at all. Really sucks the air out of the moment. My suggestion for changing it might be op but surely there is a middleground or better way to balance it.

The way to balance it is to make it so crits let you roll double the dice.... oh wait, that's how it works already. And you may like your idea now, but I bet you won't be too happy when a goblin crits with a short bow and gets to follow your rule and hits for a minimum of 9 or 10 damage (the max of 6 on the normal d6 plus the 2 or 3 from their dex modifier which I can't precisely remember, then the minimum of 1 from the additional die from the crit).

[Flanker90]

Not sure I agree but I don't disagree either.

I think if you crit your damage should be doubled. Same number of dice as normal, but the final damage should be doubled.

This is what makes sense to me but I only have a few dozen hours of irl D&D experience and hundreds of hours of combat RPG videogame experience, which will probably influence my stance.

[Gulabius Jamunius]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Originally posted by Gulab Jamun:

I wouldn't say I love RNG, but I definitely don't mind it. I mainly think its very deflating and frankly dumb that I get that rare crit and the damage output is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Like in the game you get this really cool animation and the dice get sliced in half. This experience gives the expectation that crits are bad ass. But if I roll 1's suddenly I realize nothing epic has happened at all. Really sucks the air out of the moment. My suggestion for changing it might be op but surely there is a middleground or better way to balance it.

The way to balance it is to make it so crits let you roll double the dice.... oh wait, that's how it works already. And you may like your idea now, but I bet you won't be too happy when a goblin crits with a short bow and gets to follow your rule and hits for a minimum of 9 or 10 damage (the max of 6 on the normal d6 plus the 2 or 3 from their dex modifier which I can't precisely remember, then the minimum of 1 from the additional die from the crit).

First off, I said balance between the way I suggested and the way it currently works. So idk what the point of your first sentence is supposed to mean. The game is already ridiculously easy so I'd be fine with the enhanced goblin crits, especially because that means I'd get it as well so it's only fair. Also, there are a bunch of helmets in the game that prevent being critically hit. I usually sell these helmets since they don't really provide anything. But if they change crits like I suggested, then these would be strong armor and really make characters that can use heavy armor feel tanky.

[HopeJesus4evs]

Originally posted by Gulab Jamun:

I wouldn't say I love RNG, but I definitely don't mind it. I mainly think its very deflating and frankly dumb that I get that rare crit and the damage output is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. When you crit in the game you get this really cool custom animation and the dice get sliced in half. This experience gives the expectation that crits are bad ass. But if I roll 1's suddenly I realize nothing epic has happened at all. Really sucks the air out of the moment. My suggestion for changing it might be op but surely there is a middleground or better way to balance it.

I'm more than fine with crits working as is.

You can get lucky, and you can get unlucky. Sometimes both at the same time, and there's nothing wrong with it.

After all, who knows: maybe you catched an enemy off guard, but there was a really small window of opportunity, so you couldn't aim the strike well.

Plus, given that larian use true RNG, a chance of rolling 6 1's is quite low, so I wouldn't even worry about it.

I do believe they mentioned something about adding some options to tweak RNG on the release, so that might (or not) be the solution you're looking for

[Louis]

Agree, I'd go with the higher of two dice rolls or the max roll of a single dice. Critting for low damage makes no sense. Obviously goes for both monsters and players.

[Yojo0o]

The thing is, crits don't need to be balanced against non-crits, they need to be balanced against offensive options that cannot crit, such as saving-throw spells. If you drastically improve the power of critical hits, crit-fishing attack builds gain a significant advantage over builds involving saving throws against enemies and such. Do they get anything to compensate this shift in power?

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Personally, I'd just have crits do maximum damage (not extra dice...just treat the damage roll as if they'd rolled the highest possible damage).

[Gulabius Jamunius]

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

The thing is, crits don't need to be balanced against non-crits, they need to be balanced against offensive options that cannot crit, such as saving-throw spells. If you drastically improve the power of critical hits, crit-fishing attack builds gain a significant advantage over builds involving saving throws against enemies and such. Do they get anything to compensate this shift in power?

Not sure what you mean here. Saving throw Spells like burning hands, moonbeam, and eventually fireball are extremely stronger than "crit-fishing attack builds" because they literally cannot miss and are aoe with high damage. Why would they need something to compensate? Sure sacred flame is trash I guess, but explain to me further what you mean because I don't think I understand the discrepancy in power.